Marty34

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 27, 2012 -> 04:49 PM) I have no problem with that...we actually have guys in the minor leagues who might be of the quality they'd shoot for in a deal with Zobrist...I'd think the bigger problem is that the place where we have depth that we could sacrifice 2-3 players is starting pitching, and I don't think the Rays would be interested in adding that kind of depth. They could actually have a real use for De Aza, if they considered shuttling one of their OF's to their DH slot. Sanchez might tempt them as well also. The White Sox do not have depth in the rotation. They need to add to the rotation before any kind of subtraction takes place.

I don't see the Orioles trading Markakis. He, Jones, and Wieters are the collective face of the franchise.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 23, 2012 -> 12:53 AM) Kubel is lefty DH that can fake LF but shouldn't. He's basically a worse version of Dunn. We already have Dunn. If the point is to replace AJ's numbers better to take a flier om Hafner and play Dunn/Viciedo in left than trade for Kubel.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 01:31 PM) The only personal insult I saw in that sequence was you to rock. I'm sure that is the only one you saw.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 01:19 PM) This is exactly what you do when you don't have an answer. You turn it around on someone else. ]Either stay on topic yourself, or don't complain when others don't. I know you like playing the victim here, but you aren't. I will respond to a personal insult the way I choose. If you want to ban me for that go right ahead.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 01:17 PM) In this market a 1 year, $6 million obligation is market value or more likely, less than market cost, for a top notch lefty reliever. Look at the RP signings this winter... Adams, after hip surgery, 2/12 Broxton 3/21 Soria, after TJ, 2/8 Affeldt 3/18 Madson 1/3.5 with another 3.5 in incentives. Heath Bell after his Ozzie induced meltdown was even tradable with minority of dollars absorbed. Matt Lindstrom brought Joe Saunders and Jeremy Guthrie in trades Craig Breslow brought a prospect That is just since the trade deadline. I disagree that the return for those players was "pretty significant."

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 01:01 PM) How is this on topic? Weren't you the one complaining about people going off topic? It on the laughable topic that Rock mentioned.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 01:04 PM) Or trolling Why are you making it personal?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 01:03 PM) I've given you plenty of examples. I am waiting for anything from you that isn't conjecture at this point. Either that or some comps for Donnie Veal's trade value. What relievers being traded have you provided?

Still waiting for those relievers who were traded and the returns SS2K.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:32 PM) Please confirm you mean performance-wise, ignoring salary completely. Was that the original question? I don't understand what you mean by "perfomance-wise, ignoring salary completely." Please clarify.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:29 PM) Who do you expect to be better in 2013, Thornton or Veal? Veal.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:16 PM) Thornton is simply one of the most valuable lh pen guys on the market. Veal isn't even close. The fact that this is being stated is laughable. Not as laughable as Jabari Parker going to Michigan State.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:14 PM) Teams trade for relievers all of the time. They still bring pretty significant returns. Contracts don't matter nearly as much as they did even a year ago in terms of return, and I showed you that. I am still waiting for you to show me something/anything on your side. Give me some sort of anecdotal proof. Show me the relievers who have been traded and those "significant returns".

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 12:01 PM) Thornton has a proven track record as a dependable and good arm out of the bullpen. There are risks involved, as there always are acquiring relievers, but he has a proven track record. Meanwhile, Donnie Veal acted as a LOOGY and only has 13 innings worth of service time. You wouldn't get anything for Brian Omogross after the year he had and, while he had worse peripherals, the point still stands - there needs to be some record of success before a team will acquire someone like that. You're not paying for that track record, you're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton. Teams are not going to pay his contract AND give the Sox a good return in trade. Tthat's why Veal gets the better return.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:54 AM) You must be basing this on something? So how can you argue that one would be better than the other, when evidence suggests otherwise? It is obvious that the teams who want to make a splash are willing to pay the price for the top end of pitchers and players. Look at what Boston got in return for all of their huge contracts. Look at what the Marlins got in return for their huge contracts. Look at the contracts that pitchers are signing this off-season. The evidence is right there for you. What have you got to hold up your side? You're comparing apples to oranges. Teams don't trade for lefty middle relievers to make a splash. Where is your evidence of return in trade for 37 y.o. lefty relievers who are owed $5M?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:48 AM) So what are the returns for Veal vs Thornton? I don't know what the return would be.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:46 AM) I will let you believe that, but I believe you are wrong. What makes you think that?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:42 AM) Based on what evidence, exactly? On in part, the evidence that more teams can afford Veal than can afford Thornton. In other words, supply and demand.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:17 AM) So, again, what exactly are your basing your statements on here? I have given similar, or even inferior, relievers signed all over baseball, multiple teams acquiring big dollar pitchers and players, not to mention Thornton's history as a very good lefty reliever for a lot of years. Let's see some evidence. It's important to note that you are not paying for those years of Matt Thornton. You're paying for 2013 Matt Thornton. I believe that if the Sox put both Veal and Thornton on the trade market, Veal would net the better return because of their contract situations and 8-year difference in age that favors Veal. I'm not saying you'd get a boatload in return for Veal, but a better return than for Thornton? Yes.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 11:02 AM) So what kind of trade histories are there for 28 year old career minor leaguers who have one quarter of a really good year at the major league level as a lefty specialist? Teams don't usually trade those guys.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:29 AM) So explain to me the Red Sox and Dodgers deal last fall, or the Marlins and Blue Jays deal this winter. Those are the exceptions would you not agree?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:21 AM) How the heck did Donnie Veal become worth more than Matt Thornton? Contract.

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:16 AM) That doesnt mean you know anything for a fact. That's called an assumption. You know what they say about those right? Baron, what should I preface my comments with?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:13 AM) bidding is an impossible term to prove, but the guy just had a rib removed, and was connected to many teams including the White Sox, Red Sox, Angels, Rockies, Brewers, Cubs, Nationals, Blue Jays, and Rangers over the winter. So those teams theoretically would take on Thornton's salary and give up something of value in return? I disagree. If the point is to get value back in a trade of lefty relievers rather than salary relief the Sox should put Veal on the trade block.