Marty34

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 10:01 AM) Thornton's contract has looked better and better with every pitcher signed this winter. Mike Adams just got 2 years for $6m each. And how many teams were bidding on Adams?

QUOTE (Baron @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:54 AM) Please for the love of God do not tell anyone what the organization wants. You dont have the slightest clue. All due respect Baron, you don't have to be a genius to realize the Sox would like to shed salary. I think if someone called and said they wanted to take Danks off their hands, I have a strong feeling they'd listen.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:12 AM) Then they won't trade him. It's really that simple. If they wanted to just shed salary, they either would have done so already, or they wouldn't have signed Peavy. Floyd and Thornton will only be traded if Hahn is happy with the return. They want to shed salary, but nobody wants to take on Thornton's. Do you think they could get more for Veal or Thornton in a deal right now?

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:25 AM) I'm not saying he was great at anything back there...but I'm defending him against people who say he doesn't even belong at catcher any more. He's not Buster Posey back there, but compared to having HGeovannyH Soto as your starting catcher...come on. Forget about blocking pitches, if he had to move at all to catch an ordinary pitch it was alarming how many times he missed the ball. He was so bad at it, I wondered if there was something seriously wrong with him.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 09:24 AM) Because he's in his late 30's, has a negative reputation around the league, and put up an average .730 OPS/89 OPS+ over the 8 years prior to that .827 OPS. If he could still catch the ball he would've gotten at least 2 years.

I'm not going to say Flowers is a suitable replacement for AJ, but you can't overstate how terrible he was defensively last year. Why do you think a catcher who put up an .827 OPS last year could only get a 1 year deal?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 11:33 PM) He's still considered one of the best LH relievers in the game. He has alot of value and I expect contending teams on paper to call for him very soon. I see us getting A or AA talent in return. Unless this A or AA talent is something very good, I don't see how that jibes with your comment that he has "a lot of value."

QUOTE (BaseballNick @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 08:43 AM) I seem to remember Donnie Veal facing Prince Fielder and other tough lefties a number of times down the stretch in what used to be the signature Matt Thornton role. To me, it seemed like Matt wasn't the go-to-guy in those situations like he once had been. I guess that's what I was getting at. Maybe I'm wrong. Yep Veal took over Thornton's role at the end of the year with good reason.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 21, 2012 -> 06:03 AM) 38 of his innings last year were high leverage, that's more than half. Unfortunately, the issue with Thornton wasn't that Coop & Ventura didn't trust him, it's that he sucked in these situations. He lost 10 games and had 4 blown saves last year, which shows that our manager kept throwing him out there regardless of the outcome. When you're the #1 or #1a lefty out of the pen for most of the season, not to mention being paid $5M, there's little choice but to use you in those situations.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:17 PM) He threw out more runners. He caught a bunch of rookies which made life hard. The problem was he did not catch those rookies. He picked the ball up after stopped.

QUOTE (South Side Fireworks Man @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 07:11 PM) Let's see how Flowers' defense holds up when he gets as banged up as AJ got from playing everyday. Of course, Flowers probably won't be able to play nearly everyday like AJ did so we will be stuck with a backup catcher for more games this season than we have had over the past eight years. Flowers will be fine defensively. Seeing him and Dunn in the line up together on any regular basis with all those strikeouts won't do anything to help tv ratings or attendance.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 06:48 PM) The point is eventually using age as the reason he will be worthless will be correct, but there is a pretty good chance he doesn't fall apart in 2013, considering there was no slippage in 2012. I think his inability to catch the ordinary pitch was alarming. I've never seen a catcher close to as bad as AJ was last year.

Just saw on ESPN AJ/Rangers agree to terms on 1 year deal.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 05:06 PM) The other thing to consider is that, whether or not you believe in it, a lot of people on the Sox coaching staff have commented on their worries that the bullpen is too young. I don't think they'll trade him for a live arm and $5m in salary relief -- I think they feel like they need the "veteran presence." I think the way they used Thornton last year (going through everyone other than him to close) suggests to me that they are not enamored with him.

Think you could get more for Veal than Thornton in a trade right now?

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 04:33 PM) LOL, yeah that was ridiculous, there is a very good market for a left handed power pitcher out of the pen. If there were any kind of market for him I think he'd be gone by now given the Sox have some depth there and he'd provide salary relief.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:37 PM) I don't follow. Most teams would rather overpay in terms of money than talent to fill their needs. As the quantity of quality free agents starts to shrink, teams are forced to explore the trade market for alternatives. That's when guys like Gavin & Thornton become attractive and we're just starting to get to that point. Porcello will get more back in a trade than Floyd and I certainly don't see a market for Thornton. De Aza probbly is their best chip, but I'm not sure how much you get back for him.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 03:21 PM) The off-season has barely begun. We've seen a lot more moves made in late December & January over the past few off-seasons. Plus free agency has been extremely slow this year. Since most teams would rather spend money than talent to fill their holes, we need guys like Nick Swisher & Edwin Jackson (I know he just did) to sign so a market can develop for our players. I'll start getting worried in late January if Hahn hasn't made any other big moves. I don't think we can expect a very good return on whatever pieces are on the block if teams prefer filling their needs with free-agents.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 02:48 PM) The few chips? What are you talking about? We have three SPs, three OFs, two veteran RPs, and plenty of prospects that have value and can be used to improve the team. Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be much demand for these chips.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:21 PM) I'm not making anything up. You don't post unless you have a complaint. We all understand you hate Viciedo. I guess today, you wanted some more attention. You get it, and you complain some more. This is a straight forward personal attack that's against the message board guidelines.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) I'm not sure what you mean by that statement. But most teams are doing both, 2012 Miami Marlins excluded. The Sox aren't going to drop their payroll to $50 million and concentrate on rebuilding for 3 years, not are they going to increase payroll to $170 million to "ensure" a World Series showing. How important is Viciedo's development to whatever 5-year plan it is that the Sox have? I don't think he's important enough to forgo the opportunity to get more offensive production by finding him a platoon for next year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:13 PM) Don't forget, Marty is the guy who said the entire season the Sox had no chance, they need to rebuild. Now he's blaming it all on Viciedo. He needs some help. You're all about the personal attack.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:11 PM) Why do you pay any attention to the White Sox if they bother you so much all the time? Why do you make stuff about the messenger. You do this to most you disagree with.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:07 PM) That is the most expensive platoon in the league. It's also not going to happen. I did not suggest platooning Dunn.

QUOTE (pittshoganerkoff @ Dec 20, 2012 -> 12:03 PM) It's not a black and white issue. It's not an either/or situation. If the Sox could go out and get a top notch (and very expensive) outfielder to replace Viciedo, they probably would if winning right now was the most important thing and they had the money. The team has to do what they can to compete AND build for the future. That's why they are a run-of-the-mill outfit.