CanOfCorn

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Dec 11, 2006 -> 05:31 AM) I know this was a MAJOR problem for Vaz at about the June - July period, and this is when I think most Sox fans started to hate the guy and wanted him shipped out of town. But in August he had an 3.41 ERA and in September a 3.82 ERA, which yes are small sample sizes, but it gives me hope that he started to "get it" in terms of what he needs to do to be successful. I mean in those 2 months, he only gave up more than 4ER once in 11 starts. If he can show that type of consistency for more than a couple of months next season, he'll be a VERY good pitcher for us, I have no doubts about that. I mean 50 K's in 5 September starts, the Sox don't really have a strikeout guy who can really dominate like that (unless Contreras is actually K'ing people when he's hot). Here's a question...how much of this is AJ's pitch calling? Is AJ calling the wrong pitch or is Vaz not putting it in the right spot? I can't remember right now, but does Vaz shake off a lot of pitches? Does it even make a difference? And SinkingShip...I understand you were talking about McCarthy as #4 and someone else as #5, but again, we still need to trust our system and scouts at some point. Whether they saw something in Floyd or think Haeger or Phillips can do it, the Sox need to try. Just because you don't want to see it, doesn't mean it shouldn't be done.

Also, George Foster for 15 games in '86.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 12:28 PM) What do you want to bet that the Frito Bandito was deemed politically incorrect? BOOOOOOO! I'm sure he was, but I loved the Frito Bandito.

QUOTE(SinkingShip06 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 10:19 PM) do any of you seriously remember that this team has tried the young guy as fifth starter many many times in recent years? failing horribly every time. they finally won something when they got 5 solid starters. obvilously no one on this board can read a post. i never compared mccarthy to danny wright. if you loved the rauch/munoz/wright/guy off the street years...more power to you. Yes, I remember that very well...but all Brandon McCarthy has to do is keep the White Sox in the game as the fifth starter. He doesn't have to strike out 200. He doesn't have to have an ERA below 3.00. He just has to pitch 6+ innings with an ERA in the mid-4's and he will win 10-12 games next year. But I always hope for more and think he can do it.

QUOTE(SinkingShip06 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 07:33 PM) this organization has done really well with the "young guy" in the 5th spot over the years. where's Danny Wright and the merry-go-round of 5th starters when u need them? So basically, no team should EVER bring up young pitchers because ya never know if they are going to be good? Ummm...yeah.

QUOTE(Athomeboy_2000 @ Dec 10, 2006 -> 11:30 AM) I'm more worried about the Knights of the Round Table... Don't worry...it's a silly place.

Whatever happened to... ...Twinkie the Kid? ...the Frito Bandito? ...Parker Lewis Can't Lose? ...the Idiot Box?

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 03:09 PM) Yea, that makes no sense. It also makes no sense why I keep getting e-mails from German's about their anal sex cream. Are you sure?

*thumbs up*

QUOTE(ptatc @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 04:14 PM) Again our reports differ on this. But your last comment only referred to looking at the stats not talking to anyone that has seen him pitch. He will be better than he has been, but he probably was beaten down to the point where he will never live up to being the 4th player drafted overall. I would say he's got a chance to be as high as a #3 starter. New surroundings, new pitching coach...as long as Ozzie doesn't berate him like he did with Tracey, I think he'll be fine.

...AnthraxFan93?

I don't care about apathy. Wait...no, I don't care.

QUOTE(whtsox13 @ Dec 8, 2006 -> 01:35 PM) Dont' get too excited. It's not for all Season Ticket Holders. It's only for scout seats, suite holders, and club level. Only the premium seat holders get the gift. being a season ticket holder for over 20 years gets you nothing. It'll get you a hug. *opens arms*

Yes. /end thread

...cassingles? ...Frankenberry? ...Ted McGinley? ...Rae Dawn Chong? ...CD long boxes? ...red beer (Red Wolf, Red Dog, etc.)? ...regular ol' fashioned Oreos? ...Big Boy restaurants? ...Mike Squires?

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:52 PM) I did say getting Lofton with him too.....Lofton, Iguchi would provide the speed up at the top. Uribe has some decent speed at bottom of order. And we can play Pods as 4th OF who would be late inning off the bench base stealer in close games. Also, speed only helps if you can get on base and then, after you get on base, you can actually convert the steal. Otherwise you are giving up free outs and taking the bat out of your best hitters. And no one gets on more than Bonds. Of course he will need help to be moved but there are other things he brings to the Sox that not many others can. Also, Bonds is not my #1 preference. Just a thought/idea ..... I would be happy if we got Lofton for CF and then found some other vet LF too for a year or two too. That's fine...but Dye can create runs when he gets on base because he can run from 1st to 3rd on a single. Or from 2nd on a single. And maybe even score from 1st on a double. Bonds may have a rough time scoring from 3rd on a bases loaded walk. Need to be able to create runs in the middle of the order too...without the homer. And we've already got some slow-@$$ players on the team.

QUOTE(sox-r-us @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:40 PM) And Bonds will easily cover up the runs he gives up with the runs he scores, his presence on the basepaths all the time and the influence he will have on Dye, Kong and Thome. It is all relative. Like you said, with Pods it is not like we have another Anderson in LF. Here is another idea for LF (or still better CF) - Bring back Carl Everett Just what the White Sox need...another slow-footed masher to join Konerko, Thome, and Crede. Gotta love station to station baseball.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 03:00 PM) Umm, if there's a player that the Sox should spend big money on, its Wells. Plays elite defense at a position on the important end of the defensive spectrum, yet has the bat to play a corner OF spot. He's right in the middle of his prime, and while not a huge stolen base threat, is pretty competent on the basepaths. He's exactly the type of player you pay big money to. If the Sox got him, I'd immediately offer a five-six year deal upwards of $15 million per. He's one of fifteen most valuable players in baseball. That will get him to do two things...1) Laugh. 2) Leave after the season. He's gonna want something close to Beltran money for probably the same length of time. Here you go, from mlb4u.com:

Forget distractions. Forget clubhouse cancer. The Sox don't need another base clogger on the team. Now, if we didn't have Thome? Maybe. But absolutely not with the team we have now.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 02:01 PM) So far the offseason after the White Sox set franchise attendance records and have a nearly 100% season ticket renewal rate, we have heard our GM say that the 3rd baseman will be not be able to be signed and that the entire rotation will not be able to get extensions. I was hoping the White Sox were past this thought process. I do like the Garcia deal, and IF Hirsh was included in the Houston deal, it would have been OK for me, but that is assuming the money saved will be used somewhere else. And THAT is where salary dumping comes into place. They aren't going to dump ALL of these guys. Contreras is 35 (-ish) so he may be done by the time his contract is up. That leaves MB, JG and JV. And if the Sox decided to keep two (hopefully MB and JG of the three), then that would be alright with me.

QUOTE(joeynach @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 01:24 PM) Im not so sure the market will be the same next year or the year after. If there is a larger amount of FA pitching the prices should go down. THat could happen over the next couple years. This panic on todays market stuff is what Im talking about. And who knows maybe MB, JC, JG, or JV want to stay sox and give a nice hometown discount. Its the sox that seem more stubborn. Its has been documented they dont offer more than 3 year contracts to pitchers, that will not help your chances or keeping your FA's or getting new ones.

The Sox are not acting like the Pirates. They are looking out for their best interests...no matter who is on the market. Even the pitchers that are ridiculously expensive on the Sox (I'm looking at you Javier), we aren't paying ALL of it. If anything, THAT'S the Sox' m.o. Get a player that has some of his salary already paid or get the team trading that player to pay a part of it (I.e. the Phillies with Thome). I would much rather the Sox trade Garcia for Gonzalez and Floyd that to EVER, EVER, EVER, EVER sign the likes of Zito, Lilly or Meche for those ridiculous sums they have gotten or will get.

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Dec 7, 2006 -> 12:45 PM) Unfortunately, it isn't just how he's pitched in the majors. He has 283 AAA innings and his ERA there was 5.24. This guy hasn't succeeded above the AA level...ever. I think the Phils fans know him better than we do. And I think White Sox fans know Garcia better than they do. Sure, he steps up and pitches in big games...but the Phillies have to get to a big game first. Sure he learned how to pitch without his best stuff...but who's to say that his best stuff comes back? Or that the new pitch he learned is going to work in the National League. Gavin Floyd isn't great, but he's ONLY 24. Shoot, I didn't know anything at 24 and remember the old adage about a change of scenery. It's not like Phillies fans are easy to please...just ask Santa.

Wow...this is incredible, the debate going on here. My two cents. Gio is a great get back. And considering they got Thome for him and then got him back, that's pretty good. Gavin Floyd obviously has something or else he wouldn't be a first round pick. That doesn't mean he's GOING to be your number one starter, but give him some time with Coop and we'll see. This just made our system deeper and may lead to another trade. I think this is a wash. Could KW gotten more? Sure, probably could have. But who were those players? Were they all projects? We ALL want XBox trades. We all want A-Rod for Ozuna. But, it's not gonna happen. Don't be surprised if something else were to come of this. As for the win-now issue. I don't think this damages the team at all. All it does is substitute one player that we all knew was going to happen anyway. But this definitely gives KW the luxury of going out and getting someone that the Sox need. And no, I won't speculate on who that is, but I would be surprised if the Sox are done.

QUOTE(Leonard Zelig @ Dec 6, 2006 -> 06:07 PM) Kirkjian is on ESPN now and said the Sox are not interested. Has he said anything else about the Sox?