fathom

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 06:54 AM) Kenny needs to be immediately fired if a AA spins Edwin into Rasmus and we get a short term reliever + nothing. If they're able to trade Edwin and one of their Type B relievers for Rasmus, KW should be run out of town so fast. Can't tell me that giving them Thornton instead of those Type B guys with some salary relief wouldn't be a better deal by the Sox (especially since the Cards are dying to have a lefty reliever).

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 06:54 AM) Kenny needs to be immediately fired if a AA spins Edwin into Rasmus and we get a short term reliever + nothing. Yep, Rasmus makes sense for Toronto as well.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:38 AM) Then we will see valuable trading chits being packaged with crap to free up payroll. In essence we will get little long term return on our value. It also adds to a level of risk that our remaining minor league assets might be added to sweeten the pie to remove players that might have little value. Outside of Viciedo, I'm not concerned about losing anyone from our system.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 06:29 AM) After what we saw from peavy and knowing that Humber is hitting a wall I can't believe anyone wants to see the sox subtract from their strength. Not unless a 5-4 loss to the best pitcher in the league has you hitting the eject button. One has to wonder if this team has lost so much money this year that KW's been ordered to slash some of the remaining payroll for the season? 28k tonight has to be disappointing.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:28 AM) I don't remember how the 1st Peavy deal unfolded. Same way. Poster on that site stated Peavy traded to Sox for 4 players pending his approval at around 10PM at night. Story then broke nationally next morning.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:25 AM) I don't get why this hasn't been reported ANYWHERE else is it actually has some merit. Neither was the first Peavy deal until the morning.

QUOTE (Kalapse @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:22 AM) Heath Bell makes about as much sense as Edwin Jackson. That team is what? 10 out in the wild card and they're interested in a soon-to-be free agent closer? Is it odd that Rosenthal's report almost lends credence to the Jackson rumor? Something to consider from Toronto's POV is that maybe the Sox do this trade AND include salary relief. This really seems like a salary dump for the Sox for next year (Teahen's contract) while obtaining a righty reliever like they want.

Rosenthal stating that Toronto going after Wandy Rodriguez and Heath Bell

At what time does this trade break tomorrow? I'm guessing 10:43 AM.

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:56 AM) Didn't that trade happen right at the deadline? Not at night...unless you mean the first one. First one

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:54 AM) Bingo. Every year KW has put the best team on the field. Most years, we don't win s***. The players change, but the GM remains. Who is at fault? I'd be willing to give KW a few more years if it means he brings in a new manager. However, if he's going to lack the balls to fire Ozzie and/or stand up to him, then I hope they both leave.

QUOTE (kapzk @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:48 AM) another tweeter posted that the same guy broke out the news of orlando cabrera/garland deal and also the 1st Peavy deal Was it kona that broke the Peavy deal? I remember someone on that board saying it out of nowhere late on a week night. I'd be stunned at this point if this rumor is false.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 05:47 AM) Being a paper champion is all a GM can do. And the bolded pat is absolutely true. People were as optimistic as ever after that game. They scored a ton of runs, Dunn hits a HR in his 2nd AB as a Sox player. Things are gravy. I hated the Rios and Peavy acquisitions, but the transactions that I feel KW was the most incompetent with was the Hudson/Jackson trade (and who knows if Rizzo f'd him over). Just showed a lot of short-sightedness, IMO.

QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:44 AM) I just laugh that people state bulls*** like "guys are problems in the clubhouse" as if they're f***ing facts. Not a single person here can make that claim and using that as something to support an argument is comical. Wait, you're arguing that Cabrera and Swisher weren't liked by his teammates?

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:42 AM) I don't know. It says our division is really bad? The struggles of Beckham, Rios, Pierre, and Morel haven't been a surprise. Perhaps the extent of them has been a surprise (but even that, not so much). I just find it ridiculous that so many people think Alex Rios underachieving massively/not giving good effort is a surprise. Or that Juan Pierre isn't aging well is a surprise. Or that Brent Morel not being able to hit MLB pitching is a surprise. Or that Gordon Beckham having an OPS under 700 again is a surprise. None of them are. Adam Dunn is a SHOCK, but those guys aren't a shock or surprise. As much as I hate Rios and had minimal hope for Morel, I never imagined they'd be two of the weakest hitters we've seen in a Sox jersey in a long time.

Back to the trade in question, sure seems like kona has a good reputation.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:37 AM) I've been in the Sox clubhouse numerous times. There is never an uptight moment in there. In fact, I've been in there at times when the team has struggled mightily and you'd think the team was on a 20 game win streak. You can't go around and ask 25 guys what they think about adding Player X to the team. See, I always heard that Konerko, Dye and Thome had control of the clubhouse a few years ago, and when Swisher/Cabrera came in there and spice it up, that's when things started to go down hill. I'm sure it's different now with Dye/Thome gone

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:34 AM) It doesn't seem that Swisher had any issues in the clubhouse in OAK or NY. But don't you think it's cause the Sox locker room at the time was much more conservative and uptight?

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:30 AM) For the love of God, what has happened to this board? Kenny can't hit for Adam Dunn. You guys all saw what the REAL Alex Rios looks like. Everyone here has seen what Edwin Jackson can do on the mound. Kenny has acquired a lot of legitimate talent and has gotten burned by it. But guess what? It happens. We ran out Jerry Owens and Dewayne Wise for how long? Erstad as an Opening Day CF? Listening to Ozzie and deciding NOT to bring back Thome basically for a song just because the manager is a moron, and having Jones/Kotsay at DH? Kenny has made far, far worse moves than any of these here being b****ed about, only no one is b****ing about them because both the risk and reward were very low in those cases. The Teahen deal and signing has been far dumber than Rios; Rios wasn't even dumb, it was RISKY just like the Peavy deal. Same thing with Swisher the first time. You can rip the second deal all you want, but Kenny gave up good talent to get good talent. There is nothing wrong with that. Basically what has happened is Kenny got a couple bad ends of good deals on paper, just like what happened to Texas in the Danks-McCarthy deal and what hapopened to the Phillies in the Freddy deal, or the Mariners in the other Freddy deal. You can't judge everything in hindsight. This board is being f***ing stupid about Kenny. You can't expect a GM to outright rape the competition again and again, because that's not reality. Hudson and Gio Gonzalez are the only young players worth a s*** that Kenny lost, and he traded both of those guys to try to win a division, and in each case his own players let him down on the field. I can see getting upset about the team this year, but WTF are your expectations? Is it too much to ask KW and Ozzie to do some research about how a guy would fit in, in the locker room, before spending a ton of resources to acquire them (ie: OC and Swisher).

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:23 AM) CWS get Rasmus STL gets Jackson, TOR prospect TOR gets Teahen I really have no clue. This simply doesn't make sense. This trade makes so little sense that it scares me it's legit. Also, not sure how true it is, but a Cards buddy of mine heard STL wanted Sale and Beckham

Bucket, I'm on to you! You created this thread as a favor to the Guillen family in order to move the discussion away from Ozzie's brilliant managing tonight. Clever!!

QUOTE (chunk23 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:16 AM) So let me get this straight. If this is true... KW effectively traded Josh Fields, Chris Getz, and Daniel Hudson for relief pitcher Jason Frasor, cash, and a prospect. Color me skeptical. Don't forget one of the best young lefties in the minors as well

As Kalapse perfectly said above, Kenny Williams is just terrible at his job now. If you go into a season with philosophy of "All In", and then you have to start trading some of your starting players when you're 4.5 games out for lesser players to cover up for your previous failures, then you need to go become the GM of the Windy City Thunderbolts. This clown has f***ed with this organization for far too long lately. People don't bash his transactions enough because they're just as infatuated with the "big name" players the Sox have brought in as Kenny was.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:11 AM) And how does adding $5 million a year for the next two years in a guy who won't play help them? That lineup is extremely heavy with righties, and they've had miserable production from third base this year. Also, they'd be willing to take on that 5 million if it means securing Jimenez down the road.

QUOTE (kitekrazy @ Jul 27, 2011 -> 04:04 AM) That could be it. There might be an attitude situation and the organization is quiet about just in case some other naive GM wants to take a chance. I wonder what % the Sox are will to pay on his salary? Even if they could get someone to take 35% that frees up some money. You really don't think all of baseball hasn't realized he's a lazy POS on the field?