fathom

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 12:21 AM) If people want to complain, talk about the things Jay needs to improve upon, but also talk about how much of an impact his off the field persona has had on him. Fans and Players think he's an ass because he treats the media poorly. As a result, the media unjustifiably rips on him and this spiral continues. The sad thing is he has improved with the media and this season he's gotten much much better. He had a good year, especially when you factor what he had to work with. Was it a probowl year, not quite, but still a solid season and I'm happy that he's made improvements. He's my QB and I look forward to having him play in the same system in year 2 (hopefully behind an improved oline with a big physical playmaking wideout). This is very true....we all forget just how awful he was in his first season with the red zone picks. He made a lot of improvements, and I for one hope that Martz is back next year.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 09:44 PM) No kidding, f***ing Lisa Turtle won a dance contest with a sprain.....doing the sprain Oh please, she was dancing against a bunch of white people!! That's like a 1 vs 16 in the NCAA Tournament.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 09:43 PM) That still doesn't justify the reaction to this, imo. Calling him a p****, weak, questioning his toughness, etc. None of that fits with the situation--he was playing poorly, sprained his MCL, continued to play just as bad if not worse and was pulled in the 2nd half by the coaching/medical staff. What about that brings up questions about his toughness? If it was any other sport, you'd be correct. Right or wrong, the NFL has a long history of players dealing with extreme pain to perform in big games (Owens playing with a broken bone being the most impressive, IMO). As someone said earlier, it would be interesting to know if they tried shooting him up with painkillers and using a brace.

Maybe Lovie took Ozzie's philosophy of asking Cutler (or his starting pitcher) if they think they can stay in the game, and if Cutler wasn't definitive in his answer, then Lovie went with Collins?

Ptatc brings up a good point...did they ever try a brace on the knee? Also, did Lovie mention what play is took place on?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:49 PM) And people tear things all the time. You tear connective tissue and ligament fibers from stretching alone. Just because there was tearing, doesn't mean it was some terribly debilitating injury. Ultimately, none of us will know, because we are not Jay. But jeesh, as Ptatc mentioned, they certainly didn't seem to concerned about treating him on the sidelines. Well said

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:48 PM) There is a LONG list of guys who have played a variety of sports with ligament tears in their knee. I'm not going to get into the s*** throwing fest that some are engaged in throughout this thread, but that's just the truth. And that's what Cutler's legacy with this game is going to have to contend with. It's a weird situation, as Cutler's only chance of ending the controversy sooner rather than later was to have an actual major injury (including surgery), but this news is better for the Bears in the long run.

So the media questioned Lovie why Collins was 2nd string over Hanie? That's the biggest coaching issue that came from yesterday, and one that was pretty inexcusable after the Panthers game.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) fathom, you disgust me. Darn, even though I think Michigan State sucks?

All I know is the coach from Varsity Blues would have tried to shoot that knee up with meds!

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:43 PM) Well, you certainly don't convey the fact because you said if it was a "sprain" vs a tear that he "pussied" out of the game. I meant a total rupture requiring surgery (which if you go back to last night, we talked about surgery quite a bit).

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:40 PM) Oh, he's a back-tracker. Don't act like you knew a strain was a tear. Um, 2 years of med school, father a doctor, torn ACL in high school....sadly, I know too much about this.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:38 PM) * A first degree sprain is damage to only a few ligament fibres. * A second degree sprain is damage to a more extensive number of ligament fibres, but the ligament remains intact. * A third degree sprain is a complete rupture of the ligament. Because of the force involved in this injury other structures in the knee, such as the Meniscus (Cartilage) or the Anterior Cruciate Ligament can also be damaged. It's still torn, fool. Thanks, I probably have a better insight of medical stuff on this board (besides ptatc). To say the MCL is completely torn is wrong. I'd love to know what B&B have to say about this now.

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) A strain IS a tear. It is NOT a rupture. Exactly, and a strain doesn't require surgery, etc. Still waiting to hear confirmation if the MRI was completed.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:36 PM) Yeah, you are sure. Im sure that you talk out of your ass 95 percent of the time. The only difference here is I see it every time, and you werent on the bears sideline yesterday Cutler didn't fail the initial MCL/ACL mobility test on the field yesterday, or else he would have been immobilized right away. That is standard procedure.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:33 PM) You can stop your s*** right now. All last night, we heard from Cutler supporters that how was he supposed to keep playing if his ligament was torn in half. If it's true it's just a sprain, then he's opened himself up to be criticized again. For the majority of this morning, the Chicago media was VERY supportive of him since they thought the MCL was torn. Does anyone know if Lovie said it's a strain based off the MRI? I know sometimes they'll say it's a sprain prior to conclusive MRI results (ie: Peavy's injury).

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 08:33 PM) If Lovie told him he was getting pulled, how is that pussing out of the game??? I'm sure Lovie only told him he was getting pulled based off of the response Cutler was giving him. I have no doubt the Bears trainer made the final call, but it baffles me that Cutler couldn't play through this. As I said yesterday, Cutler's best chance of saving his name in Chicago was if something actually was torn.

Well Jay, I take it back. If it's an MCL Sprain, you pussied out of this game.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:23 PM) This is exactly it. I really don't feel bad for him because his chickens have come home to roost. I defended him for much of the year, but it's really difficult to defend him when you see this kind of overwhelming backlash against the guy. I generally think NFL players defend their own, and not too many people are willing to defend this guy. Just makes you wonder what we don't know. Plain and simple, he's just a prick. He'll have a couple of buddies on the team that he can hang out with off the field (ie: Olsen). But besides that, he's just not friendly at all. I don't really care how likeable my QB is as long as he gets the job done and is a good leader.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:21 PM) He was playing a terrible game before he got hurt, no doubt. That's actually kind of getting lost in this whole injury controversy. There's still a part of me that thinks he was hurt prior to the game. He just looked two steps slow the whole game. It's kinda funny that Aaron Rodgers seemed at times to be the fastest player on the field.

As ptatc said brilliantly earlier, if Cutler does have a tear, then it's amazing how poorly the medical staff handled the injury in the 2nd half. You saw a guy like Pouncey get hurt yesterday, and they had him on crutches almost immediately.

QUOTE (bschmaranz @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:35 PM) That's a perfect way to describe my disliking for Ozzie. I'm no longer outspoken about it though. I've learned to just live with the fact that he's our manager and he's probably here to stay for a while. The thing is, I'm fine with it too....as long as he keeps Oney away from everything relating to the organization.

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 04:28 PM) First off Devin Hester is brutal as a WR. The overthrown pass in the 1st quarter was because Hester quit on the route something he and Knox do often. Cutler was visablly upset. No, that was just a terrible pass by Cutler.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 06:44 AM) Jay's not warm and cuddly, but unlike Vick and Rothelisberger and Favre he's done nothing horrifying off the field, yet I guarantee they are more loved. Very true, and as much as a lot of us are pissed at Cutler, the MRI this week is important because a torn ACL could really hurt next year also.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 05:46 AM) Oblivious to the world around me? Because I don't think this was (is) a big deal? Why is this a big deal? Give me one reason. And to Fathom's comment, Paulie would be long gone if he thought this was a problem. He had a chance to leave and didn't. That to me indicates he does not loathe Ozzie or the soap opera. I don't recall Thornton's quotes being outrageous. Didn't see Beckham's. PAUL KONERKO SAID IT WAS A DISTRACTION! He said this on B&B the day he signed. Did you just choose to not read the comments everyone posted about the interview the day it was held? Thornton was furious about Oney's comments about Jenks. As Rock has said, Thornton is a pretty good indicator of what the clubhouse thinks as he's a great player, person, and teammate. Beckham in the last few weeks said that the team really needs the soap opera nonsense to stop so that they have no excuses if they don't get it done this year.