fathom

QUOTE (Kenny Hates Prospects @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 01:46 AM) Seems more like Kenny is salivating over another power reliever again. Pena has legit closer's stuff and on talent alone is probably worth Allen but I'm very saddened by this. I think Allen is going to be a better player than people give him credit for, and now if we have Flowers penciled in at C, who is going to play 1B in the future? 1st base is an extremely easy position to fill via free agency or trade.

I think this trade gives KW a ton of flexibility to make trades in the next month without hurting the 25 man roster too much while helping our future. Like many have said, Allen didn't fit into the plans with PK signed for a few more years. It's also likely he wouldn't have put up good enough numbers to be a legit DH in the next few seasons. If this means it's more likely Thome or Dye are back, then fine by me.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:42 AM) Even still, seems like a "Giving up on Allen" type of move to me. Every team seems to have a 1st base prospect like him. He was doing nothing this season to justify being a top prospect, and I said this earlier today in the Halladay thread. The Sox are not going to get Halladay people...we don't match up with them if we don't trade Beckham.

QUOTE (Thunderbolt @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:39 AM) Bulls***, Allen had enough of a track record and a strong enough skill set set to suggest success at a major league level. Too late now. Maybe David Cook will finally get promoted. This is why you don't fall in love with prospects.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:40 AM) I never buy the concept of a "Move to setup a bigger move" because I can't remember the last time it actually happened. KW made this move because he wanted Tony Pena. Yep, and his name was thrown around in some potential deals between the Sox and Dbacks the last few years (from sources who knew about the CQ deal before it happened).

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:31 AM) Maybe we are about to trade Dotel? If KW could find a way to trade Contreras/Dotel for a big package (spare me the gay jokes), I would love it.

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:31 AM) So, he's replacing Dotel. Yes...who we better trade if we're out of it come the deadline. I actually would be fine trading him even if we're in it, especially if a team like Florida views him as a closer.

Question: Is Viciedo tall enough to play 1st base?

QUOTE (knightni @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:29 AM) I fail to see how this improves the team this year or for the next few years. Pena is not the answer to any question other than: "Name a failed reliever who gives up runs in the 7th inning." That's exactly what his role will be next year, that of 7th inning set-up man.

Sox need to get their swagger back. This Indians lineup really isn't bad. Also, is it true that Anderson is 6-44 vs LHP this year?

QUOTE (SoxFan1 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:25 AM) He's been a "loss machine" of late. He have 3 losses in the span of 3 weeks also?

QUOTE (chw42 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 12:21 AM) His WHIP is 1.53 right now. Ewww. He must be struggling as of late, as his numbers were great to start the year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jul 8, 2009 -> 01:17 AM) He has a career 114 ERA+ which is pretty good, and had a ridiculous 144 ERA+ in 2007. Strikes out a fair number, doesn't walk a ton. Decent stuff it seems. Throws about 95 mph with average offspeed stuff. He's easily one of the bigger bullpen names available.

I like it. We need another RHP reliever for next year when Dotel's gone and possible Jenks. Allen was incredibly overrated on this site, and he didn't build off of the power he showed last year when he was promoted to AA.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:00 PM) There is if it makes the Jays decide not the deal him because the package isn't good enough. If you're KW, my guess is you're willing to extend him for 2 years and $30 million beyond his current contract. That might be plenty for Halladay to decide he would give up the right to pursue FA if it gives him a chance to play for a contender this season and the next 3 afterwards. I guess we'll just disagree, as he would get way more than 15 million on the open market and could go to any team he wants (including teams he might feel like are in a better chance to contend, like Yanks/Red Sox/Dodgers for the next few years). You have to remember that the general consensus in baseball is that the Sox are an aging team with their big named offensive guys on their last legs.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:55 PM) Because whether or not he agrees to an extension is a large factor in the package the Jays get for him, meaning whether or not they accept a deal for him. If he agrees to an extension, they'll get more pieces back. Unless some team goes nuts and offers him an extension like 3 years, 60 million, there's just no reason for him to not become a free agent.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 07:53 PM) For Haren? Possibly, and that's only cause we have some infield depth in our system. I love Beckham, but that deal could be too good to pass up.

One big thing to remember is that Toronto has a lot of good young pitching, especially LHP. Thus, Richard and Poreda are a lot less valuable to them than they would have been to San Diego. Thus, that's why you'll hear names like Beckham and Flowers in any trade for Halladay.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:47 PM) Because he wants the hell out of Canada at this point? Yes, but why agree to an extension now when he could be a free agent in a year and have the bigger market teams involved?

I honestly don't believe Allen would be a huge piece in any trade. He's a solid prospect, but he's definitely not a game-changing prospect with regards to a trade package.

QUOTE (chisoxfan09 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:45 PM) Bear in mind one of the caveats has to be a negotiating window to allow KW the opportunity to offer him an extension, 2-3 years. That is a solid return on investment. But why in the world would Halladay do that?

QUOTE (elmo9246 @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 06:29 PM) I don't know as much as I'd love to see Halladay and as much as I prefer proven talent I just think we'd need to give up wayy too much to get him. I agree. With the offensive players we're likely to lose after this year (Dye and Thome), I don't want all of our resources going to one pitcher (and it would be for only one full season).

Baldwin

QUOTE (BearSox @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 03:21 AM) His 2008 year wasn't much better. I think most people remember his 2007 year, and keep hoping that and some more come back after he matures/adjusts. His value is definitely low right now, but if a team like the Braves are interested, they definitely think he could revert back to that 2007 year, at least. But I think they'd expect quite the package in return for Javy. One guy I wouldn't mind buying low on from the Brewers is J.J. Hardy in the offseason. He's had a tough season, and the Brewers definitely want to make room for Escobar at SS. J.J. Hardy is awful. At least Hart can run.

QUOTE (santo=dorf @ Jul 7, 2009 -> 03:15 AM) He's the new Esteban German. Callaspo hits everyone in the AL Central however. So his wife is in the AL Central?