fathom

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 05:38 PM) Yes, cause Vaz was surely the only pitcher who sucked ass last season. Find me one place where I said he was the only bad pitcher? However, he was the one who got the enormous run support and still couldn't get us the victory. For all this talk of how good he was down the stretch, he still went 2-8 post ASB last yr.

If Vazquez had pitched well for the first 6 months of the season, we would have coasted into the playoffs. He had just a terrible knack of blowing games in which the team gave him leads. He was the rally killer. That's not what the argument in this thread should be about though. It was more just some "new" information on the trade that is often discussed on here. And if 32 homers and 27 steals as a CF in your rookie year doesn't mean you're a likely potential superstar, then I guess nothing does. As long as he helps Arizona win one of their next 3 games though, I'll always like Chris Young.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:23 PM) Javier is doing well today, but doing so on a losing team. I suspect his "success" would be much different if the heat of the spotlight/pennant race were on. But my comments have nothing to do with what Javier is doing today. It remains a stupid trade for the very reasons I stated. You don't give up that kind of talent in a deal that makes you only marginally better, if at all. I still believe that we make the playoffs last year if we have McCarthy in the rotation than Vazquez, especially if you gave him the run support that Vazquez got.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 02:07 PM) Ah yes, Fathom in all his glory. Kenny Williams made a mistake, lets all celebrate. That's just a silly post, as I'm not even close to being KW's biggest critic on this site. I probably gave KW more credit for 2005 than anyone else. However, when a report comes out that he declined to trade the awful Brian Anderson, and instead gave up one of the better young center fielders in a long time.....that's cause for criticism.

I love the TBS hi-def....but it was hard to watch in the 8th inning with all those insects on Joba's neck.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:56 AM) And...if Mr. Furcal were to walk, we still get the 2 draft picks we'd get if Garland walked. And we have a LOT more depth at starting pitcher than we have at SS. I'd much rather find out whether or not Floyd, Haeger, or Broadway can cut it next year for $400k than find out if Uribe can finally prove he's worth $5 million. If you're going with the young guys in the rotation, you're probably not going to compete for the pennant. With that in mind, why not try and find a SS that you might be able to have for a few seasons?

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 04:18 AM) Again, if Phil Rogers is the definitive authority. Phil is a nice guy and he has the gift many Texans have, he knows how to spin a good yarn. That's why I was surprised when I first read this article, as we had never seen anything about it. However, if he's not being accurate with this story....then half of this stuff we've ever discussed on this site should probably be reconsidered.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 04:15 AM) You're right...I think I may have been confused with Seattle supposedly being enamored with Jon. My mistake. I do know the Dodgers inquired about him this season, but then again, who didn't? Don't get me wrong, I fully respect your trade idea though. It's more realistic than asking if we can get Kemp and Kershaw for Garland, etc. It's just the Dodgers are in a situation where they're looking to clear some positions in order to get young guys into the lineup. If Schmidt could even get back to 90 pct of what he was, they'd have a great starting 4 in the rotation.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:35 AM) Here we go again. I knew we would be discussing the legend of Chris Young today sooner or later after last night's home run. Can we just let this die already? Please? How much you think Javy Vazquez could be helping the DBacks this postseason? The guy we got back had a pretty good year this year in his own right. Enough already. It's not about trading for Vazquez....it's the critical error KW made in giving up Young instead of Anderson. Now we're in a position where we're going to have to spend a lot of money on overrated center fielders this offseason.

Someone mentioned this earlier, but what connections have been made with the Dodgers being interested in Garland? Is it just cause we assume Garland's going to go to every west coast team every offseason/trade deadline (I'm just as guilty of this as anyone). I'm confident in saying Garland will get traded this offseason, but I think it will be to a team like the Rockies or Mariners.

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 04:02 AM) Owned. Also, I hate how people allude to inside knowledge of the locker room, but just won't flat out say the info. It drives me nuts. If you're going to say something, say it completely with the whole story. If you don't feel like it, don't bring it up. Because some of us might not trust every lurker and poster on this site with information that is either very secretive or hurtful to the organization.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:58 AM) Well I can guess it, it really doesn't need to be PM'd because if it's bantered about here as fact, the board should know about it anyways. Further I recall Guillen saying to the press when or shortly after Tracey was demoted, Tracey would be back if the team needed him. Later in the year, he was. I will admit straight out I have a very hard time taking much of anything you state about Guillen as gospel because I've seen, in my opinion, some irrational bashing bordering on a vendetta against Guillen from your posts. Nothing personal but I sense a real bias, where everything is Guillen's fault and I have watched enough baseball to know better. This information came around the time of the Mariotti incident, and you can ask people on this site who the first person to know about Ozzie calling Mariotti a f** was. If you don't want to trust the information I give you, that's fine. But I'll continue to use the information I hear from people I trust in order to shape my opinion on things.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:47 AM) If all you had to give up was Hu, would you rather take Garland for 1 year or give up several players or a top guy like Kemp/Loney for Blanton? They would never give up Kemp and Loney in order to get Blanton. I don't think there's anyway they trade Loney, as he'll be their 1b for the next 5 years (he looked like such a stud this year). Kemp is also a future superstar, and outside of Santana or Miguel Cabrera, etc., I can't see them moving him either. I've been told that they want a lefty starter, and Dontrelle's name has been rumored.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:51 AM) Really, how do you know this, particularly the first part? If Guillen had an ungodly hatred for Sean Tracey I find it extremely hard to believe he would have pitched again for the White Sox, which he did. I'll PM you the information. You can thank Razor and KW for making Ozzie give Tracey another chance.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:49 AM) I see Cora working with the middle IF guys on positioning, technique, etc. and I see Baines working with the OF guys on similar stuff. (should be clearer, have seen this in Tucson). So it looks like the "hole" as it were, was the baserunning technique and I will go out on a limb here and say they have someone in mind that they like. There is great validity to the issue of your question, why don't the Sox players know all this stuff by the time they hit the majors? Not that players don't need a refresher now and again, but your exact point is why they are looking at all aspects of player development this offseason. They were talking about this during the Red Sox game about how every coach in the minor league system teaches the same fundamentals, approach, etc. This way, when they get to the majors, they're ready to play the game the right way. In my opinion, the biggest issue the Sox have had with their prospects is that they don't do enough to get the hitters ready for big league pitching. As long as they're producing in the minors, they don't try and fix some of the holes. It's actually something I heard about Brian Anderson while he was in the minors, and that his hitch would really hurt him.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:43 AM) You said there was a source of tension between the two, so I'm not following you at all. Yes, because Ozzie was disappointed in Razor for sticking up for Tracey. Ozzie Guillen has an ungodly hatred for Sean Tracey after the Rangers incident....it's very pathetic.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:41 AM) You think Meloan and Hu are marquee prospects for them? They would be for us...but they are merely gravy for the Dodgers.... I agree, they may indeed unload a Kemp and Kershaw as a package for Santana (who is one year away from free agency), but they have plenty of prospects and a supposed attraction to Garland. I guess we'll wait and see. Yes, Meloan's their set-up man of the future, and Hu is their SS of the future. They're definitely their marquee prospects along with Kershaw.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 03:22 AM) So they could get a veteran starting pitcher? I'm not sure, but this is the organization that supposedly wants to trade some of it's younger pieces to acquire some "veteran talent" for next season. There is actually some logic to acquiring undervalued goods on the marketplace, and if anything is undervalued right now, it's veteran certainty. Believe me, at some point, someone besides Schulerholz is going to realize that the pendulum has swung too far towards cost certainty and start unloading some of their prospects for veteran talent again. Maybe the Dodgers feel now is the time? By all means, they have the farm system to do so... If the Dodgers trade their marquee prospects, they'll get back a starting pitcher that isn't a year away from free agency (like Blanton).

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 02:59 AM) Wait, so you are saying: Ozzie yelled at Tracey, Tracey got sent down, Razor pitched Tracey in the minors and got him back on track, and that equals, Ozzie and Razor had tension between them? Not at all. Ozzie never wanted Tracey to see the majors again. Razor asked for Ozzie to reconsider (in a conversation that I have told a few people on here about), and the rest is history.

QUOTE(DrunkBomber @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 02:57 AM) I agree. I watched every episode last season and was actually excited for this one. To me it seems like theyre too far all over the place and has strayed farther away from football than last season. Also that ending was a little extreme for a show that is supposed to be about high school football. Exactly my thoughts. Obviously they're trying to make it edgier to see if the ratings improve, but it got away from the fun of the show.

Contrary to what we've heard for a few years now, the Diamondbacks were willing to do the Vazquez trade for Anderson instead of Chris Young. Looks like KW made a very costly error in talent evaluation, especially with how quickly we then gave up on Anderson. http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

QUOTE(iamshack @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 02:44 AM) I really think Kenny hopes Jerry will develop into what Juan Pierre has been and still is. I would hope any talks with Coletti would net us Jonathan Meloan and Chin Lung Hu for Jon Garland... Why would the Dodgers do that? They want to get rid of Furcal in order to get Hu into the lineup and free up some salary.

Friday Night Lights did everything in it's power to annoy me tonight.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 02:28 AM) If that were the case, and the reason he was not brought back, I have a difficult time believing he would have been brought up to the big club in the first place... I don't think it was the reason he wasn't brought back. I honestly don't care who coaches 3rd base, as long as they do a solid job.

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Oct 6, 2007 -> 02:02 AM) What were those? I've been telling people about this story for over a year now, but Razor stuck his neck out for Tracey last year after the beanball incident. Like you mentioned, the young guys from the minor leagues love Razor. However, as we've seen, Ozzie's relationship with those guys hasn't always been picture perfect. Right there, you get a source of some tension that was building up last year. Hopefully, Razor got along good with all the coaches this year, but Steff doesn't seem to think so. I didn't hear of any particular issues with Razor this season. I hope Razor goes on to get another job, and continues to life the healthy lifestyle he did this year.