fathom

Good thing we pitched to him with an open base. If you actually care about winning, you put him on, and try to K Howard.

This looks like opening day all over again. No forkball, no fastball, no control....no chance to get big league hitters out.

The frustrating thing about Contreras is that the money could have gone to Buehrle. It will be the moment that KW loses the fans when Buehrle and Garland are gone, and Vazquez and Contreras are in the starting rotation still. Contreras' average fastball has fallen about 6 mph in a little over a year.

Did Uribe have any chance on Victorino's infield single?

I know it's the wrong thread, but holy sinker ball match-up between Arizona and the Yanks.

QUOTE(Reddy @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) i'd love a-row back. its the presence of a guy like him that we're missing. no spark, no life at all. plus the guy can play and he loves it here. i'm really hoping this happens He'll be fine in CF, but we better improve the talent in LF and at SS if we want to have any prayer. RF and 2B are likely to be holes as well, and 3B is no sure thing. What I'm basically saying is this team has a s***load of holes next year.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:39 PM) I am just going to go out on a limb, and not try to be mean. Threads Soxtalkers are sick of: 1) Rowand back to the White Sox 2) Buehrle headed to the Cardinals ... am i forgetting any? Just wait til this offseason, when I think both scenarios are extremely likely.

I'd puke if they traded Gio and Fields for Tejada. Tejada is on the downside of his career, and his bat speed is slowing down and his defense is atrocious. And there's no chance that the Brewers/Yankees are giving up Weeks/Hughes.

QUOTE(elrockinMT @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) Think positive like 4 steals or something. They can steal all they want as long as they don't score. I am hoping Jose steps up and keeps the Phils under control. This Phils lineup just seems like it's too good for our lineup to overcome. Tonight is one of those games where you just have to hope we can hit a 3 run homer if we manage to get a few guys on base.

QUOTE(The Ginger Kid @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:14 PM) T. Iguchi 2b A. Gonzalez lf P. Konerko 1b J. Dye rf J. Uribe ss L. Terrero cf J. Fields 3b T. Hall c J. Contreras p It's scary to think that the Sox would have been reprimanded by the Major League Baseball offices during Spring Training if they fielded this lineup.

Contreras on the mound with Hall behind the plate.....I predict the Phillies steal 6 bases today.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:34 PM) Well, don't forget about Yovani Gallardo. Watch out for him in Milwaukee... I think....and hope....he meant in our minor league system.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 07:25 PM) Well. Our starters have always had the philosophy under Coop to pound the strike zone and attack the hitters. Its really a Mark Buehrle strategy that we have tried to instill in the rest of our rotation. As soon as they had Danks doing that in ST, he completely changed and matured as a pitcher. Gotcha....good point. I've actually thought a lot of Danks recent struggles lately have to due with his lack of throwing consistent strikes. I don't know if you've noticed this, but he seems to be coming off the mound to the right a little more than he had earlier in the year, and that's causing his ball to sail up and out to righties.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 07:21 PM) Dont speak too soon on Floyd. The guy has been coming on of late. Everyone thought he would be, even OOTP. Of course that was before Danks proved that he was way beyond where Texas thought he was in terms of dev, in fact our organizational philosophy towards SP's changed his approach and made him a very good SP for us. What are you talking about? (and I don't mean this negatively, I'm interested in what philosophy you're referring to).

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 07:18 PM) Floyd has actually pitched very well recently. Let's not write the guy off as a bust just yet. The kid is all of a whopping 24 years old right now. Yes, he has been pitching better. However, I have it on very good authority that KW thought Gavin Floyd would be our 5th starter this season.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 07:07 PM) Could you? Why would you assume that Kenny Williams turned down better players in a trade than what he got back from Philly? The guy was, and is, hurt. The whole Sox fan base knew that a starter was getting dealt this fall, and they found someone stupid enough to take Garcia without giving him a physical, while receiving a couple of good prospects in return. Because KW got fixated on Gavin Floyd, and thought Coop could fix him. Also, how do you know that KW would have gone ahead and made a trade that would help for the future....but it meant getting rid of someone like Dye? You accuse us of making a lot of presumptions, but how do you know that maybe KW and Ozzie think that this team can still compete for the playoffs?

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:35 PM) Well lets think about this: If we can swing for another just about ready for the bigs SP like Danks/Gio. We could swing some of that saved cash, deal one of our other starters and big an even bigger splash this upcoming offseason. If we could keep Buehrle, insert either Gio or another young guy into the rotation and take some of Dye, Gooch, etc's sal to land maybe Ichiro or something like that, we keep fans, get younger and move forward. That's exactly the point. The rumors of Dye for Billingsley got my ticker racing. He'd be the perfect guy to bring in. I don't see how we can bring back Dye for the next two to three years of the new contract he'll get.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:29 PM) It is kind of hard to sell panic when you have won 99 and 90 games in back to back years to go along with a world series trophy. People wanted to be a part of the winning. It is much easier to sell panic when your bullpen is a disaster, the team is hitting in the .230's, and you are in 4th place. People will eat this up now. If KW was so worried about the bandwagon fans jumping off the ship if they struggled during 2007, then he should have received major league-ready players in the Garcia trade. It would make no sense to stop the semi-rebuilding process that started last offseason just because you're scared of losing some bandwagon fans. The real easy solution to keep these fans would be for Reinsdorf to open up the wallet and spend a ton of money to re-sign Buehrle, bring in Ichiro, etc., this offseason. Then, you can not only make the Dye trade for prospects, but you can have a team ready to compete for 2008 also. I think we just disagree but in my view, this 2007 team isn't good and isn't a playoff contender.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:23 PM) But the writers won't look at it that way, because that doesn't sell newspapers. They will focus on the millions of dollars that will be saved by trading him. You can bet on it. I honestly don't believe that KW is worried about what the press will say about his transaction. If he did worry, then he would have never said the bulls*** he said about the market last offseason and how he was whining that he'd never re-sign another Sox starting pitcher. In reality, that should have had a much more negative impact on our fan base and perception than any move made for an aging veteran who has fewer hits over the last few weeks than deaths on the Sopranos.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:22 PM) We also won 90 games last year with virtually the same talent as this year. I think THIS year is the outlier Yep, the 2005 and 2006 team were World Series caliber teams. This year, it's just not. That's fine though....as many have pointed out, most teams would do anything for two straight 90 win seasons. Admitting that this team just lacks "it" this season doesn't diminish what KW and Ozzie and company achieved the last few years. We've been destroyed by the injury bug this year....and that's after seemingly a 5 year span where we had fewer injuries than anyone (besides Frank).

What annoys me about that article is that trading Dye wouldn't be to save money. It would be to get some valuable players back that could help this team over the next 5 years. No one appreciates the impact Dye's had with this franchise more than I have....but if you can get good value for him right now, you have to move him.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 06:16 PM) The entire offense seemed to get hot right when it needed to that year. I recall the drubbing the Sox put on Vazquez that year when they had like a 10 run inning, capped off by a Thomas 3-run jack; that fueled the team until like the ASB. That was Vargas....Javy kicked our ass earlier in that series.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 05:04 PM) That's the fun part, Kenny is making a decesion by not putting the farm up for sale after the first week of not having any rain. He understands that you can't portray panic to your fanbase and expect them to show up anymore. Kenny Williams gets it. The trade deadline is approaching rather quickly. How much longer can we keep holding on to the injury excuse or the fact we play a lot of games against below .500 teams? I give this team two more weeks. If we continue to play bad and the Cubs come into our house and kick our ass, then KW has to start becoming a seller. It sucks, but it's the way baseball works. Jermaine Dye is more valuable to this team now as a trade chip than as a right fielder.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:59 PM) But even then in that little statement you just made, you are telling the fans you are quitting. A statement like that doesn't say we want to get better for 2008, it says that we are quitting and this one player deserves better than to stay here. That perception is very important, I cannot stress that enough. Well, if you can't make tough decisions like that, then you're in the wrong business. We already made one wrong decision by not trading Crede when he wouldn't get the back surgery during the offseason and we knew he wanted a huge money deal. This team needs young, exciting prospects a lot more than we do an aging veteran hitting .250 for the rest of this year with wheelchair-style defense.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:50 PM) There is plenty of sentiment that exsists that we have to trade people RIGHT NOW. It is posted here ad naseum. Yes, to trade Dye right now before his value decreases even more if his batting struggles continue and his knee injury lingers.