fathom

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:46 PM) It may not matter. Like I said, from what I've heard, Rowand was there to be had in the Garcia trade but the White Sox did not make it happen. That could be partially because Williams felt Anderson would solidify himself as the starting center fielder and would have no need for Rowand. Or, it could because Williams just wasn't interested. He would make a lot of sense in 2008, but, that ship may have sailed. I think it's more possible now than ever.

QUOTE(AddisonStSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:42 PM) Do I want Rowand back because he was a fan favorite or a cult hero? Not necessarily, but it helps. I want Rowand back in 2008 because he is a big league f***ing centerfielder and will be had for much less than his fellow OF free agents. The only problem is that he's going to get more than he really should. If KW was intent on bringing him back next offseason no matter what (which I'm about 90 pct sure he was going to), it would be better off for us if Rowand cools off a lot.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:35 PM) See this is the unfortunate thing about White Sox fans and the way the White Sox are written about in this team. I cannot say this enough times. THE BASEBALL WRITERS IN CHICAGO ARE TERRIBLE. With the exception of a few decent articles by Phil Rogers here and there, Sox fans, in general, are NOT informed of the direction the organization is going. They are not informed of what really goes on with the payroll. They are not informed why certain trades have been made or may be made in the future. The average Sox fan gets his information from guys like Jay Marriotti and Dan Bernstein. And then we wonder why the organization has to put puppets like Chris Rongey on the radio. Someone has to fight the ignorance spewed by the writers informing our fanbase. The average fan has to understand the issues facing the organization. They have to know that Mark will like get a contract totalling $80-100 million this year. They have to know that while no prime free agents were added last year, contracts of players like Dye, Iguchi, Crede, Podsednik, etc., were escalating. They must know the truths about Jerry Reinsdorf and his committment to winning. Instead, they are lead to believe things pointed out by the Poster I quoted here. That Mark Buehrle won't be signed (probably because we're just cheap, not because his salary might account for 15% of the the entire payroll for the next six years). That no big name free agents were brought in because Jerry is pocketing the surplus money brought in by the increase in season ticket sales. White Sox fans need to be more inquisitive about what their team is really doing and where the organization is really going. They need to understand things like payroll, know their farm system, understand some other statistical methods of measuring production other than RBI's and wins and losses. Go to a Red Sox game, or even an Athletics game. These fans are very well-informed. It's the same way we all need to be. Dan Bernstein is a fantastic analyzer of the White Sox. When they're good, he'll say they're good. When he sucks, he'll say why they suck. He also has a lot of inside information about the team if you pay attention close enough.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 04:02 PM) We would have to get a HUGE deal, something along the lines of Danks and Massett for McCarthy, to do a deal now. That is what Kenny has to be looking for. It has to be a deal that he can take back to the public and be able to defend as something there was no way he could pass up. If he were just to deal everyone right now, that wouldn't happen, because if there were people offering value for our players, they would already be gone. You don't just deal to dump people, which is pretty much what is getting advocated. Trust me, I don't want a fire sale just to shake things up. Our minor league system is so bad that whoever we bring up the rest of this year, they'll surely suck. However, I want Dye to be traded for the fact he can still get you some value, but he's clearly on the downside of his career right now. All he has to say is that Dye had a great career with the Sox, he'll always value his loyalty, and he wanted to reward that loyalty by sending him to a team that is in first place, etc. I don't think there's a Sox fan out there who would be upset if we trade Dye.

Maybe it's me, but trading Dye to a contender would be a very respectful thing for KW to do. ss2k5.....so are you not supporting the idea of trading some of our players in the next 45 days?

David Aardsma allowing a two out, two run homer to prevent us from sweeping at Detroit.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) Kenny Williams can't be worried about the media? Then why should he be reigning in Ozzie Guillen when he says something stupid? Its because media perception matters in this town. Don't kid yourself, its obvious you have wanted this melted down for quite a while, but Kenny has to do things intelligently or we end up with a $50 million payroll for 2008 because of season ticket cancelations. He has to be able to give the perception that he did everything he could for 2007. With teams like Houston and Minnesota coming back from huge deficits in the last few years, there will be plenty of writers convincing people that they quit too soon if they were to do something today. Don't forget that White Sox fans are about the biggest bandwagon fans in all of baseball. They have to believe that we are just reloading for 2008, and not completely rebuilding because of the past perceptions that still linger in this town. There were people who didn't go to games for a decade because of grudges like the strike and the white flag trade. It will happen again if this gets done in a haphazard fashion. Sox only have good attendance for one reason: winning. I don't see how keeping guys that won't be on the team next year for the entire season will help our ticket sales for next year, etc. Let's face it....we have a ton of bandwagon fans. I love bandwagon fans in baseball more than any sport, because attendance dictates payroll in baseball more than any other sport. What are people going to perceive is happening when we lose Buehrle, Dye, and Iguchi this offseason and replace them with Rowand and a couple of middle-of-the-road players? The 2008 situation has been looming for a few years now, and I just hope KW is more focused on rebuilding this team for the next 5 years instead of trying to fool people that they have a legitimate chance in 2007 or 2008.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:32 PM) Kenny Williams can't be worried about the media? Then why should he be reigning in Ozzie Guillen when he says something stupid? Its because media perception matters in this town. Don't kid yourself, its obvious you have wanted this melted down for quite a while, but Kenny has to do things intelligently or we end up with a $50 million payroll for 2008 because of season ticket cancelations. He has to be able to give the perception that he did everything he could for 2007. With teams like Houston and Minnesota coming back from huge deficits in the last few years, there will be plenty of writers convincing people that they quit too soon if they were to do something today. Don't forget that White Sox fans are about the biggest bandwagon fans in all of baseball. They have to believe that we are just reloading for 2008, and not completely rebuilding because of the past perceptions that still linger in this town. There were people who didn't go to games for a decade because of grudges like the strike and the white flag trade. It will happen again if this gets done in a haphazard fashion. What have I wanted to melt down? And there's a big difference between the media criticizing someone for personnel moves as opposed to media criticizing a member of the organization for calling someone a f#g.

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:11 PM) You don't think that the Chicago writers will spin the Sox trading two marque players into a White flag scenario? There is a group of writers that will torch the Sox as soon as any deal is done, especially if it is done this early. No, I think it's the writers who will bash him if he doesn't try and get something for guys who we have little shot at re-signing. KW can't be worried about the media though....they're going to complain about things no matter what. By that time, they'll be focused on the Cubs anyways. If the Sox can get some good value for Dye, then KW deserves a medal. Jermaine Dye had the most memorable first two seasons in a Sox jersey of anyone that's ever played for the organization....now, it's time to trade him before fans really start to dislike him and forget about what he's accomplished here.

The Chicago Knights

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) You guys have to realize that Kenny Williams has more on his mind than just the product on the field. If he melts this down too quickly and the entire media starts screaming "White Flag", fans are going to have a reaction as well. If they are convinced that this team isn't going to be good for years, the attendance will drop, as will the payroll. Kenny almost has to wait for the perfect time, so that he can make it look like he is just reloading for '08, instead of just backing up the truck completely. The perception about how this is handled is vital to the future. If they give the perception that they didn't give 2007 a fair chance, Sox fans won't come back for years, and the franchise will go back to it was in the 80's. I disagree....with how fickle our fans are, I think seeing this horses*** product on the field right now would have a worse impact than if KW was able to free up some payroll for next year and add some exciting young players. I don't know of a single Sox fan that thinks this team has a chance to be really good this year. We're not saying he needs to get rid of everyone. I think the main person we want to see traded sooner, rather than later, is Dye. I understand keeping Buehrle until the deadline, as I'm sure they'll try to re-sign him and also make sure that the media is aware of that. I'm sure we'll play the injury card in the media even more now with Crede's injury. QUOTE(NorthSideSox72 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:05 PM) I don't know if I'd say it would fall that far, but you do make a really good point. And despite this team's struggles, one has to keep in mind that KW still might be trading to keep THIS year's team better, not just the future. The season is not quite over yet. It better be for someone who will be around next year also then. Trading away any of our prospects for a free agent after this season would be brutal. And on a different note, I'm already pencilling in Rowand in CF next year for the Sox.

I'd have to think the Reds would get Salty in return for Griffey Jr., as the Reds will probably pay some of his contract. Honestly, I think the Braves would be nuts to trade for Griffey Jr. in that spacious outfield.

Not really sure why the Braves needs Griffey Jr. They have a great platoon situation going in LF, and have Jones/Franceour in CF/RF. If anything, that team needs help at first base.

SSI....Rudy is gone at Texas after this year. He doesn't get along with Washington at all.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 02:38 PM) Perhaps he's waiting until after we play the Cubs? Our fans put a lot of stock into that series and would like our best chance to sweep the northsiders. I agree, I predict any trade won't occur until after that series. The problem is if the Reds beat the rush and start selling guys off.

QUOTE(Frankensteiner @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 03:24 AM) If Greg Walker doesn't deserve to get fired for this mess, then there isn't a single other baseball coach/manager/executive in baseball that deserves to get fired, for anything, ever. Great, concise point. It's for this reason that I think it's better that we lose over the next few weeks so that the changes will be made to this team's personnel. I don't blame Walker for this season....but I do want a new hitting coach for next year.

If the Reds get Billingsley in return for Dunn, I'm going to be super pissed.

And in something that can only make you laugh, Charlotte got shutout/4-hit tonight.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 02:40 AM) -See if the bullpen can be the worst of all time. Wow....and you say I'm the party pooper?

Reasons to watch the games: - root for Fields to progress and show signs he can play 3b for next 5 years or so - watch the development of Danks - see if Terrero can possibly turn into an everyday starter in the majors - watch Boone Logan adjust his belt after every pitch - follow Thome's chase for 500 homers

I guarantee this team doesn't win more than 75 games. We're that bad of a team, and we have a ton of games left against the Tigers and Indians.

QUOTE(Flash Tizzle @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 02:23 AM) I'm hoping somewhere up on that list won't be "receiving nothing useful for Buehrle" With all the holes this team has going into next year, I don't see how you can spend 15 million a year on a pitcher. KW's 3 year big board must be really messed up.

I predict Fields will hit .225 with 9 homers the rest of the way.

I'm actually thankful that Boras is his agent. If not, we might have re-signed him.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 02:09 AM) They just annouced it on the PFB show. f*** you Boras. Another mistake by KW last offseason. Once he declined the surgery, he should have been traded. KW had to know he'd never sign him to a big deal with his lingering back issue.