fathom

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:47 PM) Basically, some damn good pitchers who are having poor halves. I count 6 guys that would net you a hell of a lot more than Rowand. Who? The only ones who have any trade value left are Felix, C. Lee, and Bedard. The rest of the guys are old veterans with bloated contracts.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:32 PM) Garland is beyond dreadful. There are currently 97 pitchers in MLB who have pitched enough innings to qualify for leading the league in ERA. Garland is ranked 92. Doesn't sound like a guy due $22 million total for 2007 and 2008. His numbers are Jaime Navarro-esque. But....but....but....he's an 18 game winner.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:22 PM) At Garland's worst, he's going to win you about 10-12 games, give you a league average ERA and eat up 200+ innings. Couple that with his upside and he's a valuable commondity. He's worth much more than an average hitting/good defensive CF. Aaron Rowand man love is kind of creepy. Besides, I thought Kirk Hinrich was the new Aaron Rowand. Considering I was not exactly a Rowand lover on this site, you're arguing with the wrong person about Rowand's greatness. As you said, at Garland's worst, he wins you 10-12 games. That's not exactly a promising statement about someone who's going to be making almost 10 million a year. The funny thing is that I would have never thought I'd see the day where I can clearly state that if this team had Rowand this season, and not Garland, we'd be a better overall team.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:12 PM) "Terrible"? That's a pretty bold statement, and one that would be more accurately used to describe someone like Anderson (at the plate, at least). His numbers don't look good so far this year, but he's still a ML-caliber player. He had an OBP of .385 and hit 29 jacks last season, so I wouldn't say he's washed up just yet. All you have to do is watch Edmonds play, and you can see he's clearly on the downside of his career. He's lost more than one step in the outfield, and his swing has more holes in it than the bottom of the Sox lineup. Mulder is another pitcher who it looks like he's past his peak. He threw a ton of innings during the early part of his career, and he hasn't looked the same for over a year now. Some team's going to overpay for him this offseason.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:11 PM) So basically what you're saying is the Phillies are going to build their team around your poor man's Mark Kotsay. Not only that, they're not going to take an 18 game winner for him, straight up. And, you're the one shaking your head? Wait, so Rowand is terrible now, and Garland's this glorious 18 game winner? If Garland is struggling to keep the ball in the park, I'm sure the Phillies would want him then also. :puke Garland's value is definitely not what it was, as he's not exactly a cheap commodity anymore. He might be signed for a few more years, but you're not getting a bargain if you trade for him. The Phillies have their 4 building blocks in place on offense, and it's Howard, Utley, Rollins, and Rowand. Now, they want some pitchers to go along with Hamels, Myers, and Floyd.

QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) I can't believe people actually write crap like this. You can't really believe what you're saying. :headshake QUOTE(WCSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:03 PM) Jim Edmonds can't contribute in the majors? Unless he's suffered some injury that I'm unaware of, that's not really an accurate statement. He's terrible now. His body has broken down, as his bat speed has diminished significantly. Also, he's about to go on the DL. QUOTE(TaylorStSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 10:02 PM) I can't believe people actually write crap like this. You can't really believe what you're saying. Yep....I can't believe that I wrote that the Phillies would want to keep a fairly cheap CF, and unload their huge contracts in RF/LF, in order to free up money to acquire a top starting pitcher. Maybe I should go buy an XBox, and come up with more trade proposals that clog this site that don't have a chance in hell of ever taking place.

QUOTE(WilliamTell @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 09:02 PM) The Cubs have scored 5 in the 4th to take a 5-1 lead over the Cardinals. I think I heard the announcers say the Cardinals have had 3 errors this inning. Yep, Rolen's defense has been a disaster all season against the Cubs. He lost them the game last night with his error. Does anyone know why Pujols left the game with an injury?

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 07:53 PM) Haeger and Rogo is a solid starting offer. It is? I don't think either guy is anywhere close to being considered a big time prospect. Why do the Phillies need Rogo? They have Howard at 1B. Rowand is the center piece of the new style of play the Phillies are going for, and Burrell/Abreu are more likely to be traded than Rowand is.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 07:48 PM) Garland can be traded, he would just have to agree to it. If the Sox ask for his permission to trade him and its to a place like Philly, he might accept it. I would not be suprised if Haeger and Rogo went to Philly for Rowand. The Phillies would laugh at that offer. Rowand's playing excellent for them right now.

QUOTE(Cuck the Fubs @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 05:41 PM) No. They're just cheap and have bad management. And the fans were pissed when Alou was let go. Yep, they're so cheap they've been among the top 6 or 7 in payroll over the last 5 years, and they spent a fortune on their bullpen this offseason.

QUOTE(My Dixie Normus @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 04:13 PM) I put this loss on Ozzie. He hit for BA in the 8th with 2 outs, runner on. Then ANOTHER ball sails over Mackowiac's head that BA would have gotten to, IMO. I was sitting in the front row of 162 so I had a pretty good angle on it. I think BA makes that play (Pretty easily actually) and we go into the bottom of 9 tied with the top of the order comming up. Mack just does not go back for a ball very well, period. Macs play in center has cost us runs in the past but last night is cost us the game. Ozzie didn't have one of his better games last night. Seemingly every move he made back-fired.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 02:52 PM) I just can't buy that the Sox are not as good as perceived. You can't get lucky 110 times in one year. And then add players with historically better numbers to that roster and expect to get worse. We're just underperforming at a bad time. In no way am I trying to live up to my moniker of Mr. Pessimism, but don't you think that maybe we just had a magical season where we got career years from a lot of guys, and the ball just bounced our way a lot?

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 02:15 PM) Any status on Thome? I'll be stunned if he plays this wknd.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 02:57 PM) He basically made one bad mistake to Wilkerson. He looked great last night, and is improving every start. It was nice to see him utilize his fastball more. I think it's fair to say he won't match his numbers from last season, but he's going to be a solid 4/5 starter. To be honest, I have more confidence in him than I do Garcia.

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 04:19 AM) I'm still debating to myself if I should reply to this. EDIT: Just typed a good paragraph and copied it, just in case you have anything else to say about this. Did I miss something?

QUOTE(SoxAce @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 04:06 AM) Well.. our "future center fielder" Gary Matthews Jr. was 2-4 today with a GW rbi, surprised noone brought up his name yet... :rolly BA is here right now, he is our future stud, let's put this to rest please.. I'd rather talk about something that's worth talking about (I.E. Bullpen, Uribe, Garland, Pods semi-slump) then talking about something that were not losing ballgames after. Anderson has done nothing to show he's going to be a future stud. We're not exactly talking about someone who dominated in the minors last year. There were many people concerned with his K totals and his swing. And BTW, it's not just soxtalk b****ing about Anderson. There's been numerous articles in the paper about it, including the one last wknd saying he might get sent down. He's not the specific reason we're losing games, but his struggles aren't helping at all.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 04:00 AM) Anyone like to see Montero get another shot? Yep...that's the ticket. Call up another minor league guy.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:45 AM) Bullpen is number one. The bullpen's been getting screwed by our defense, especially in CF.

QUOTE(whitesox1976 @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:44 AM) The bullpen is pathetic, losing 4 straight to teams we should be beating. Yep, how dare we lose to great hitting teams like the Indians and Rangers?

QUOTE(mmmmmbeeer @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:40 AM) This is too good of a team to not improve it, regardless of cost. We're so close. This team has a lot of holes. It's way too early to make statements like "they're too good of a team". We might get back to the elite level, but we're not exactly a well-oiled machine like we were last season (and yes, I know the records aren't too much different).

The funny thing is that everyone's going to blame Mackowiak's defense for the loss tonight, but the turning point of the game was Pods running like my grandmother on Young's double, and letting GM Jr. score. Of course, Ozzie was begging for GM Jr. to be stealing on that pitch as soon as he brought in Nelson. QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:37 AM) Everything thats wrong with the team was in tonights game. -Bullpen cant hold a lead. -Our CF platoon is causing huge issues. -We can't get the big hit -Leaving lots of runners on base I would add in: lack of ability to foul off tough 0-2 pitches. We've been striking out looking at an absolutely alarming rate. Kinsler battled his ass off in the 9th inning, and ended up winning the game.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:33 AM) Who? I can't stand that people say that, yet they never bring a name, a realistic name to the table. Since we don't know who's available, it's impossible to predict. Everyone says guys like Crawford or Hunter, but that's not realistic. All I know is that we're losing quite a few games due to the lack of an all-around CF, and something has to be done about it. Not only that, but we're having to use Mackowiak all wrong. He's not even a CF....he's always been more of a corner outfielder or 3rd baseman.

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:20 AM) Do you BA naysayers f***ing get it yet? Yep...we need a brand new center fielder.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jun 3, 2006 -> 03:29 AM) The other way to look at it is, if Brian Anderson were showing a bare minimum of success at the plate, they'd never have to pinch hit for him. He isn't, so you pinch hit Mackowiak. Damned if you do and damned if you don't. It's exactly what I said earlier. Anderson's struggles at the plate are f***ing this team over big time, and a result is Mackowiak having to play in CF.

Time for Ozuna to steal 2nd base. Knowing our luck, he's going to get called out.