fathom

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 07:28 PM) Who wouldn't praise those numbers? Exactly, no one. However, people seemed so worried about getting up Uribe that they seem to neglect just how damn good Tejada is.

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 07:26 PM) That said, I don't think we need to make a deal. I like this team the way it is, but Tejada/Thome/Konerko or some variation of that would be a pretty dangerous middle of the order. That's the thing. Even though a lot of people seem to be against acquiring Tejada, I'm sure these are the same people who will be praising him when he's putting up 300-35-110 next season.

I'm sure I'm in the minority here, but in order to get Tejada, I'd have no problem with the Sox doing this trade. I honestly believe Tejada is a massive upgrade over Uribe at the plate.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 02:51 PM) For a guy making $12.5 million, his ERA being higher than the league ERA the last 2 seasons is a little disconcerning. If those aren't considered underachieving years for Javier Vazquez, what would be? There sure seems to be a lot of excuses for him in the past. Even though I think he'll be a good contributor for the Sox, I don't know how anyone can say his last two seasons haven't been disappointing.

QUOTE(WCSox @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 02:35 PM) Sorry, but I have to agree with Jim here. Vazquez is a durable workhorse who would be a decent #2 pitcher on a lot of teams. What you call "two underachieving years" (4.91 and 4.42 ERA) I call "one underachieving year with very solid career numbers outside of it and an excelltn #5 pitcher for any team." Weaver would also be a very good #5 on most teams, but Vazquez has better stuff and more upside. Those other very solid career numbers were put up in the National League at a great pitcher's park. Yes, he makes an excellent number 5 starter. And I agree with what was stated earlier by someone....if we're going balls-out this season to try and win it again, why not just keep Contreras, and see what happens come free agency? The only answer I can think of is that we're over-budget already.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:51 AM) In the year 2004, he was in New York and plenty good pitcher have done poorly there because of the New York factor. In 2005, he was with Arizona and the thin air there causes the curve to lose its bite, look at how poorly pitchers do in spring training. And this year, he's going to be pitching as a great hitters park. After a while, you just want to see the guy live up to his expectations, and stop having excuses. Trust me, I'm not saying I don't like Vazquez. I'm just saying that it's still a question mark about whether or not he'll be anywhere close to a very high-priced pitcher.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:50 AM) Look, Hirsh is the top spect in the stros system and a fantastic arm, Young might be the better spect right now but Hirsh would come in here and be our top spect right away. Then you take in age, contract, and obviously most importantly production and Taveras and Qualls are so much better then Viz and Duke it's not even funny. Exactly, if you see my post about 30 minutes ago, I said I would be happy with that package compared to some of the other ones mentioned on here. However, I don't think the Astros would do that trade.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:42 AM) Once again you are way over the edge. He rarely walks anyone, is durable, has nasty stuff. They would never sign Jeff Weaver, Scott Boras ring a bell? The White Sox have been after Vazquez for 3 years, there's a reason for that. I will trade a prospect for a guy with Vazquez's stuff and durability all day long. Apparantly Williams disagrees with you on prospects ... he kept Anderson over Chris Young. Every player is a question mark every year, I will go with the guy who has shown durability, a guy that just about every team wanted. The guy has given up one HR every 7 innings in his career, not that big of deal to me in the steroid age and smaller ballparks. I wouldn't worry about it if I were you, we got a very good pitcher. If Vazquez is all those attributes, why has he been disappointing the last two seasons? In all honesty, I'm not worried about him though. I'm still just thrilled that we got rid of Duque and his contract. I couldn't be happier about this offseason. However, if we do trade Contreras, my only argument is that I hope we get equal value to what we gave up in our two previous trades.

QUOTE(JimH @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:32 AM) Overrating the prospect and underrating Vazquez. Huge question mark my ass, the guy throws 200 innings every year. Vazquez is a huge question mark Jim! He's had two underachieving seasons in a row, and now he's going to a great hitters park in the AL. I've seen enough of him the last few years to know he's not even close to being a guaranteed above average starter. If 200 innings a year is that important, why not just sign someone like Jeff Weaver, and keep the best prospect in our system?

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:28 AM) Astro fans at baseballthinktank.com have a different perspective on Taveras' defensive talents. They say he throws well but doesn't get good jumps or take good routes to balls. They said a lot of balls drop that shouldn't. The guy hit .291 but his only other plus was steals. His OBP was not too impressive. He could just as easily be the next Pat Listach or Jerome Walton. A prospect probably wouldn't help in 2006. Qualls is decent, but Contreras was arguably the best pitcher in baseball the second half of the season and he should net a bunch more than that package if he were to be traded. There is no impact player in there. Taveras isn't very good in CF. I'm definitely against a trade package centered around him. Considering we gave up a super prospect in Young for a huge question mark in Vazquez, I would hope to get a real strong package for Contreras.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jan 4, 2006 -> 03:17 AM) If KW made that trade, he should immediately be fired. The thing is, the Astros won't give up that much for Contreras. At least by getting Qualls, we're getting someone who can help our greatest weakness right now.

QUOTE(BobDylan @ Jan 3, 2006 -> 04:57 AM) Tejada, as good as he is, is not as cool to watch play as Uribe. I don't know about some people, but Uribe's not exactly fun to watch when he goes into his month long slumps at the plate. I like Uribe, but I can't believe some of the statements I've seen on this site about Uribe vs Tejada.

QUOTE(Spiff @ Jan 2, 2006 -> 11:31 PM) Because Uribe is The Man, end of story. If Uribe's the man, then Tejada is a god.

Very good signing. He can mash against lefties.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 1, 2006 -> 06:39 PM) Thats a great point about Harris, I hadn't even though of it. And now that I look at it, they are pretty damn similar.. Taveras is in a different world when you're talking about speed than Willie is. Also, Taveras is already very good at using his speed to get infield hits. That's something that Harris never could master, as he was a 4-3 machine. However, I don't want anything close to this trade taking place. I would be very disappointed that after we gave up such talent for someone like Vazquez, that we would only get back Taveras and an average prospect in return.

The newest comments by Tejada will put even more pressure on Hendry to get Tejada. When it comes down to it, I still think the Cubs will end up giving up Prior, Hill, a hitting prospect and Patterson for Tejada and Bedard. I don't care who the Cubs have to give up for Tejada, it will be worth it for them.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 09:20 PM) 3. this is true, for sure - but mainly because besides some things early on, the white sox have been rather quiet this offseason. Rather quiet? They've been involved in rumors for a ton of players, and there's been plenty of speculation about trades involving some marquee Sox players also. To say the Sox have been quiet is like saying Paris Hilton's a virgin.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 08:45 PM) i really never understood this, so i think im going to get to the bottom of this now. the red sox prospects are overhyped how? edit: thinking about it, perhaps the white sox prospects are just as overhyped as the yankees prospects are? i mean the white sox got freddy garcia for jeremy reed, mike morse, and miguel olivo? who? there nobodies... The Red Sox prospects are overhyped because one of the most visible baseball "experts", Peter Gammons, thinks every guy is going to be a stud. Also, I honestly don't know why you put yourself through some of the arguments you get in on this board. You take things way too personally in regards to the Red Sox. If you want to find a board the praises every player or thing they do, I'm pretty sure there are plenty of Red Sox boards available.

Greasy, to answer your question before: We're paying our starters enough money to the point where you can't play the "what if" game. Yes, injuries are a part of the game. However, if you have a chip like Contreras, which can bring you a SUPERSTAR offensive player for 162 games, then I'm all for the deal. Even if we only have 4 of our 5 starters for a majority of the season, those 4 starters are good enough where I think this team can be successful (as long as we get some offensive production).

QUOTE(greasywheels121 @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 05:57 PM) Some of you guys don't realize how lucky we were avoiding injuries in '05. I also think we were lucky to win as many games as we did with our offense last season. I know we've added Thome, but we still have quite a few hitters that can easily bat in the 240-250 range next year. I know it won't happen, but I'm confident in saying we'd all have no problem losing Uribe after seeing what Tejada can produce for the Sox.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 05:51 PM) He cost too much to get and alot of $$$$$$$$$$$. other than that.... So did Thome and Vazquez....and Tejada's a hell of a lot better than either of those guys.

QUOTE(whitesoxin' @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 05:21 PM) Now I know an offer of Contreras, Uribe, and possibly a prospect sounds like it won't be enough, but I'm thinking it just might be enough. Here is why: Jose Contreras had a monster second half and continued to dominate in the playoffs. That is what the Orioles remember the most. Juan Uribe had one of the most amazing defensive performances ever in Game Four of the WS. This is what the Orioles remember. On the other side of that, Manny was a whinning b**** last year in Boston, and Clement had a very rough second half of the season. (Only because he took a line drive off his face, but people don't seem to think that's why he didn't pitch well) Manny and Matt also have extremely high salaries. Although it is very far fetched, it is a slight possibility. The Orioles want a superstar in return for Tejada. Contreras/Uribe doesn't equal superstar. I bet there are some teams that will make a run for Tejada that we haven't even speculated about.

QUOTE(sayitaintso @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 04:53 PM) Well i know that, but ozzie said that he wanted to try to move tadahito down in the order. And if we got tejada, i doubt that he would bat second, which would then move tadahito right back into the same position he was last season. Just a hunch, but I'd take the lineup with Pods/Iguchi/Tejada/PK/Thome/Dye over Pods/Uribe/Thome/PK/Dye. If the Sox did acquire Tejada for Contreras/Uribe/prospects, then I would think they'd have the best team in baseball by far (and this is coming from a doom and gloom guy).

QUOTE(Adam G @ Dec 30, 2005 -> 04:51 PM) The Cub fans I talk to want absolutely no part of Tejada. They're under the impression that he's a real SOB, clubhouse cancer type. Many in Baltimore said that he gave up on the team in the second half last year. Well, Cubs fans are idiots (no s***) because Tejada on their team would win them probably 10 more games than Prior.

Let me add one thing.....Miguel Tejada is leaps and bounds better than Juan Uribe. I keep seeing things like "Uribe is bound to excel offensively, etc." Even if Uribe was consistent all season (very unlikely with him), he wouldn't come close to matching Tejada's production. I was definitely against trade McCarthy in the Tampa deal for Huff/Baez, but if we do end up trading him, at least let it be for a superstar like Tejada.