fathom

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 09:14 PM) At the risk of sounding like Kenny, Cruz is actually a guy I've wanted for a while. With his arm and his funky motion I really think you get him with the right pitching coach(see atlanta) then he'll be a very good pitcher out of the pen. Also, don't get me wrong I'm not comparing coop to leo but coop aint bad himself. I think Cruz can becomes a terrific set-up man. I'd much rather have him than guys like Thornton or Redding.

Why get Juan Cruz when we have Tim Redding, Dustin Hermanson, and Matt Thornton? "WHERE WOULD HE PITCH"?

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 08:33 PM) Add inexperience at the major league level as well. At least thats part of it for me. There's no way to predict if Jenks is going to be a reliable major leaguer.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 05:54 PM) Your favorite person to cite Joe Nathan isn't throwing as hard as he will. Before his first year with the Twins everyone was wondering how he was going to get by with a 90 MPH fastball, but when the season started, after his training, his good fastball was there. That's the way many hard throwers do it. Favorite person? I think I've only mentioned him one time as an example of something, and that was saying that he's a sure-thing to get 35 saves. Again, I'm not overly worried about Jenks. I just think that if he can't succeed though, we're in a lot of trouble. We're a team built on winning low scoring, close games. A competent bullpen is very important.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 05:42 PM) I was sitting in sect. 113 row 12 which is really about the 7th row. The gun is stationed right in front and it was easy to read. A black guy with the Marlins was sitting right in front of me and he had his own gun. He only used it for 2 pitches but it read the same as the one that was hooked up. Buerhle never threw higher than 84 that day, and Politte was about the same as Jenks. The one pitch I saw go to 93 was laced for a double. I wouldn't be surprised if the was a conspiracy within MLB to add a couple of miles per hour to everyone's fastball, much like the NBA with height measurements. I couldn't care less if jphat doesn't believe me, but anyone else, I am speaking the truth. Why would I make up what Jenks was throwing? Who knows what is causing Jenks drop in velocity, whether its his weightlifting, tightening himself up, or lack of conditioning, or something else, the fact remains his velocity is down, his mechanics looked a little off, he having a tough time throwing strikes, and when he does throw strikes he is getting hit hard. I trust what you're saying, and I also trust my own eyes. Hitters aren't just barely making contact on his heater like they were doing last year. There's no life on his fastball yet. There's still time for him to get it back, but we have less than 10 days until the games start. Paging Brad Lidge....paging Brad Lidge.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 03:38 PM) Jenks has been throwing in the high 90's since high school. And he damn sure doesn't look like he's ever taken a drug that helps build muscle or cut fat. He's pretty much just a fat slob who throws extremely hard like RockRaines said and I'm glad we have him. I just hope he starts showing some signs of control soon. Ozzie wouldn't be having meeting with Jenks and talking about Cotts as a fallback closer plan if there weren't some concerns about him. Oh, I'm not saying I think Jenks was or is on roids.

Here's my biggest concern about Jenks.....his mechanics are off right now, and he seems very tight on the mound. With his elbow history, I just hope he's not putting too much stress on it. Also, if Cotts has to be our closer, our bullpen becomes even weaker. Can Fox make a "Prison Break 2: Venezuela" and get Urbina back here soon?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 03:33 PM) All I can say is thank God it's fairly obvious that Jenks has never done steroids in his life. The thing is, I never thought Koch did either. He was throwing in the high 90s when he was in college. It's not like his velocity just picked up all of a sudden one year.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 24, 2006 -> 02:27 PM) What does that have to do with the White Sox? Guillen doesn't lie and he's said that he isn't worried about his velocity, and just wants him to throw more strikes. I swear on my life that this is what they said about Koch going in to Ozzie's first year on the job.

But Jphat told me that Jenks wasn't fat....he just came in with more muscle, and that no one should be worried about him?

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 10:38 PM) That was in the minor league game he pitched in today, right? Nice. What an excellent acquisition. This guy is going to hurt us more than help us. This guy doesn't deserve to be pitching in the majors. I hope KW's not too proud to see that.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 10:08 PM) Time for Redding to lose the game. Good! I don't want to see him do even close to well enough to pitch for us in the majors. I'd rather have Felix Diaz over him!

For those not watching.....how does Logan look today?

QUOTE(Aderal @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 06:39 PM) Anyone know Thortons' lefty righty splits off the top of their head? His WHIP was near 1.68 against both lefties and righties.

BTW, I'm still of the opinion that we should trade Contreras and prospect for Lidge and a top Astros pitching prospect. There's no doubt in my mind that McCarthy is better suited for being a starter, and not a reliever.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 05:07 PM) Hey, you can worry abotu it all you want. I wouldn't expect otherwise. Ozzie was saying that to fire up Jenk and get him going. Just like he has for every other position on our team at one time or another. He has a much different way of managing than Wedge or Gardenhire. YOu should know, you blasted him for it all through last year right up until the end of Game 3 in the WS. Ummm....I'm actually happy that Ozzie is trying to fire up Jenks. He came in out of shape, and looks very uncomfortable on the mound. If he keeps up these poor mechanics, he's just begging for a serious injury with the way he throws. I've been saying all along that Jenks is not a known commodity, and it's not like we can just put him on the mound this season and be guaranteed 35 saves (like the Twins can do with Nathan). Funny you mention Game 3 of the WS though, as that was the only game in which I thought Ozzie didn't manage exceptionally well (how in the hell did he put Hermanson in for the 8th inning when he hadn't pitched in a decade?). It worked out well though, and I'd have to say that there's a lot more people worried about the bullpen than I am. I just don't want a case like the Cubs last year where you have a very strong, expensive starting pitching staff see it's performance ruined on a frequent basis because the bullpen can't get the last 7 outs of the game.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 04:52 PM) Take a look at these pitching stats. Just interesting to see. I wonder if Cleveland is really worried? Cleveland And Minny for another comparison. Minny Is their manager stating that Nathan and Wickman might have to be removed from the closer role? Does one of their main relievers have a back injury that has robbed him of all of his stuff on the mound? Jphat.....the thing that should bother us Sox fans is that our manager, GM, and the biggest homer of them all, Hawk, seem very worried about the bullpen. We have too much talent and money invested in our starting pitching to have it fall apart in close games in the 8th and 9th innings.

The thing that I don't understand with bringing in Thornton is that the last thing we needed to add to our bullpen was an extremely inconsistent reliever who's a huge question mark and, by every statistical standard, not deserving of being in the majors.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 03:39 PM) I don't think so because we have other serious options at this point and because I think Ozzie is really pissed at how out of shape Jenks showed up to camp. We'll probably start out the season with the "by commitee" approach we used, like last year when we had Hermanson, Cotts, and Marte all closing games for a brief stretch. We have other options? I don't really think that we do. If we have to make Cotts our closer, our bullpen gets significantly worse. Basically, if Jenks isn't good enough to close, he won't be good enough for the 8th inning.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 12:50 PM) That people would piss themselves over spring numbers and results when they don't mean a thing. Comparing Iguchi's spring to Cintron's is especially hilarious considering how much earlier Cintron prepared and the type of work he got in the WBC and then comes back and rakes. Tons of players from the WBC are doing the same thing. I love it. Jphat.....it's Ozzie making these moves, not us. The team is obviously concerned about Iguchi's performance so far.

Also, am I the only one who thinks Cintron could be a better number 2 hitter than Iguchi or Uribe this season? Just some thoughts.

QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Mar 23, 2006 -> 05:58 AM) Cotts as closer? Intresting aswell. Just if jenks goes off the map.. it just KILLS our relievers. What a terrible mess... Quite simply, our bullpen is in shambles right now. Cotts is a risky closer, as there are still some games where his control isn't around the plate. Jenks isn't a guarantee to even be an average MLB pitcher this year if he can't get his mechanics/control in gear. We've been saying all spring that there's a lot of time to work things out, but these moves by Ozzie seem like he's getting worried. Can't we just put the greatest closer in World Series history in our bullpen? Mr. Mark Buehrle, of the perfect save pct. in the WS.

http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...-home-headlines

Could you have imagine if they were taking some of the immature rumors that we were discussing earlier last year? In the next Sports Illustrated "Is Timo Perez the personal sex slave for Ozzie Guillen?" Congrats to soxtalk for the exposure, but this is pretty dumb of a writer to blame an independent message board for starting a rumor that was being reported everywhere.

QUOTE(iWiN4PreP @ Mar 22, 2006 -> 09:58 PM) Jenks just needs to start throwing hard. He looks uncomfortable on the mound. Just not very smooth.