fathom

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:37 AM) Listen I don't mind marching him out there every 5 days, I do care that Ozzie has no feel. the sox tied it up, and Elduque's pitch count was in the 80's. They just came off a killing yesterday and everything is flying out of the park. As soon as they scored he should have been pulled to keep it a one run game. Like I said earlier, the DBacks are an awful match-up for a lot of our starters, especially Duque. With all their good lefties, Duque didn't have a good chance at a quality start tonight. What does hurt was how Glaus really hurt Duque that inning.

Also, Sergio Mitre has become the greatest sinkerballer of all time I guess. He's allowed 2 balls to reach the outfield in the last 13 innings.

QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:36 AM) Luckily the Twins are losing. 2-1 in the 6th 3-1, our good friend Ray Durham just homered.

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:35 AM) apparently it's time for a jump off the bandwagon thread.... :roll: Funny thing is that even before Duque started giving up runs by the second, some of us were saying he was done with. Now that he's gotten shelled (again), people assume we're ready to jump off the bandwagon. The only bandwagon I'm on is that we're going to need another starting pitcher by the trade deadline.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:33 AM) well, we come home and lose two straight due to our pitchers. Its just nuts. This is getting out of hand right now. What the hell is Ozzie thinking Maybe our pitchers are coming back to reality? I don't expect Contreras to pitch as bad as he did last night, but we couldn't have expected a lot of these guys to maintain ERAs in the low to mid 3s. This team is going to have to start hitting in order to have a chance at the playoffs.

QUOTE(rafacosta @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:33 AM) he is done... Yep, but people will still point to his record and try to suggest how great he's been for the Sox. Stop looking at his win-loss record, he's been about 4 pitches away from being 4-6 this season.

f*** this. Duque f***ing blows. We'd be better off with him on the DL. We're going to need a new 5th starter.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:31 AM) Now that's a good pitch. Yes it was....and then followed with a hanger right over the plate. Glaus just seems to kill the Sox.

QUOTE(BigSqwert @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:30 AM) As much as we're all complaining about El Duque tonight I am sure he will be money for us in the playoffs. Unless we have massive injuries, if we make the playoffs, I don't want Duque close to pitching in a playoff game. Am I the only one that thinks he just has nothing left? Dear lord, that's now 12 baserunners he's allowed in 4.1 innings tonight.

Can we please take him out while this game is still close? Especially when it gets warmer out, Duque's going to give up a ton of runs at home if he continues to put so many runners on base.

QUOTE(chimpy2121 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:22 AM) I wish this ump was calling the same strikes for both pitchers. There was one pitch earlier on Counsell that I thought should have been called a strike. However, the pitch that Hawk was whining about wouldn't have been called a strike by a majority of the MLB umps. Look at Vazquez's walk numbers in comparison with Duque's.....Vazquez will get the benefit of the doubt a lot more than Duque will.

QUOTE(Ozzie Montana @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:21 AM) why is rowand playing so shallow if there is two outs. He wouldnt be able to throw out the guy at home. Now he makes it easy for the ball to go past him and let pieces of sh** like Clayton get a triple. ugh We better not lose this game cause lose a series to the diamondbacks, they're not horrible but they're certainly not great. I mean come on. DBacks are not a very good match-up for us in terms of their hitting. They have a bunch of solid lefty hitters to go against our 3 righty starters this week. If we can go 1-2 against them this series, it wont be the worst thing in the world.

Duque's WHIP is almost 1.60 now, which is almost .35 points higher than his career average. The runs were bound to add up after a while. No one can get as lucky as he did the first 10 starts of the season.

QUOTE(KevHead0881 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:19 AM) Well, the guy is 7-1. I'd say it was a pretty good move. Its not like its he's killing our payroll either. If Duque can finish the season with an ERA under 5 and end up with 12 wins, I'll be very surprised and thrilled with what he contributed. He's been so incredibly lucky to have the record and ERA he has this season. He's benefit the most from Ozzie liking to keep his starter in so long.

For the love of our bullpen though, Ozzie needs to alter the rotation so the two Cubans dont pitch back-to-back.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:17 AM) El duque is El doney I can't believe KW gave this washed-up senior citizen a 2 year deal. Oh well, it's not my money, so I won't lose sleep over it.

2 more misplayed balls by our terrible outfield tonight. It's been way too frequent this year. This was bound to happen to Duque though. Keep putting people on base, and all it takes is one hard hit ball to break it open.

Has Duque become our version of Steve Trachsel? Mercy, he takes forever to pitch.

QUOTE(jphat007 @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:08 AM) They have 2 runs in four innings on four hits. I wouldn't call that getting to him. That's like saying we are getting to Vasquez. Weird thing is that Duque will be lucky to get out of the 4th inning with only allowing 2 runs....and that's considered a good outing for him.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 15, 2005 -> 01:07 AM) Quick note: giants are getting to santanna tonight 2 runs in 4 innings against Santana. With the Giants mediocre bullpen, 2 runs wont be enough against the Twins.

Duque just flat out sucks. Even on nights when he has good stuff (for him, that is), he still has to battle just to get out of innings. For the life of me, I don't understand why he threw Glaus a fastball.

I hate the way we're almost platooning Pods. He needs to be playing as much as possible in the leadoff spot. We got him to impact games in which we don't hit a lot of homers. Thus, we need him in the lineup no matter who is pitching.

I don't want to see the Sox ever try to make Cotts into a starter. A big reason why a lot of guys have more success in the bullpen than in the starting rotation is because they can get away without having a lot of pitches in their arsenal. Cotts has a fastball and slider right now, that's all. That's fine when you're in the pen, but as a starter, it could equate to problems. Also, Cotts will likely never have great control. For those games in which Cotts can't find the plate, it's a lot easier to pull him after two batters when he's in the pen than it is to have to pull your starter in the 3rd inning.

Even though I have questions about Lugo's character, he would be the perfect bench player to add to this team to help with the middle infield back-up problem we have. Lugo is also a very good runner, as the SB numbers that have been discussed on here. I'd be a lot more comfortable with him on the bench in case of an injury than I would be with Ozuna and Harris.

QUOTE(chi-guy2 @ Jun 14, 2005 -> 01:00 AM) this is why we need another pitcher, can use him as a long inning reliever We were better off putting Marte on the DL. I haven't heard anything to suggest he'll be ready in the near future. It's amazing that a team with such a good record has certain glaring holes on its roster like we do (long man, back-up 1B).