jackie hayes

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 12:42 PM) I'm not sure how over-paying for Burnett and Ryan, and then dealing for an aging and constantly-injured Rolen, who is under contract for two more years and $24 million more than Glaus has "paid off." I don't think that Rolen has even played yet this year. Maybe they're not cutting back to make a pusher later. Who knows. But it's pretty obvious that they dumped Frank and kept Stairs for purely financial reasons, and that the "performance" excuse was a massive load of crap. If I had to guess, I'd think that they now realize how stupid they were to offer so much money to players who can't stay healthy and want to create some more financial flexibility next year. My point with the Glaus-Rolen trade was that they were still spending money, making big commitments, just this offseason. It's strange that they'd be trying to cut salary for the future and still take on such a big contract (when they could have just let Glaus walk after this year). Burnett's deal really isn't that bad in hindsight, and the point with Ryan is that -- even though I still think they overpaid -- they will have him this year. In other words, they're approaching full strength. It's obvious to you that they dumped him for money, it's not so obvious to me. I wouldn't have done it, but I don't believe that was the only motivation.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 11:45 AM) OK, I see what you're saying. More likely the latter. Nobody can use the first 60 at-bats of the season to determine a player's performance over the rest of the season. But if it were Frank's mouth, I don't see why the Jays didn't call him on it publicly. It certainly wouldn't be the first time, and therefore it would be a lot more believable than the excuse that they gave. Stairs' numbers last year were barely better than Frank's. His numbers the year before were inferior to what Frank put up in Oakland. Given that Stairs is even older than Frank (by a few months) and that he's basically a washed-up journeyman, I don't see the compelling reason for favoring him over Frank. Actually, I do see the reason: The Jays are only paying Stairs a combined total $3.25 million over '08 and '09. You think that may have had something to do with their decision??? Again, you're not getting my point. I'm not saying that the Jays are a bunch of cheapskates. They very may well spend the $10 million they're not paying Frank next year on somebody else. (Remember the Sox dumping Carlos Lee's salary prior to the '05 season, and then spending the money saved elsewhere?) Then again, their dumping of Frank for Matt Stairs' paltry contract suggests that they might be curbing their wild spending. No, I do get your point. You aren't saying they're cheap, but you are saying that they know they won't win this year, so they're cutting back (and in the process, hurting their chances to win now) to make a push later. But that makes no sense. Everything they've been doing is actually paying off. Rios has developed into an excellent player. Burnett has actually pitched quite well, he's healthy (well, mostly -- that nail thing), and that contract turned out to be good value with the way sp contracts have gone. McGowan and Marcum have both developed very well. Ryan's finally back, and Halladay doesn't have too many great years left. Just this offseason, they swapped Glaus for Rolen, when Rolen had 3 years (big years) left on his deal. But now, the season begins, they're playing well, and suddenly Ricciardi changes his mind completely and decides that it'll never work, let's plan for the future? It's just not a reasonable story. Everything they've done for years has been building to this point and shows that they want to win now. Again, I'm not saying they made the right choice. But to say they're knowingly hurting their chances just to slash such a small amount of payroll doesn't fit with anything that team has been doing for years, all the way up to the start of the season.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 08:48 AM) The only people who belong in this discussion are Frank and Joe Jackson. No one else even deserves mention. Because of the differences in era, it is difficult to pick one or the other. They both dominating like nobody else for what they did in their era. I think you have to talk about Collins and Walsh, too. (Collins didn't hit as well as Thomas, but you have to account for position.) But taking into account the amount of time spent with the Sox in particular, and what they did while in Chicago, I'd give the nod to Thomas.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 21, 2008 -> 02:13 AM) It may be a moot point, but I believe that they owed him $8 million for this season. They Jays never could've rationally THOUGHT that Frank batting below the Mendoza Line THREE WEEKS INTO THE SEASON meant that he was "useless" to them. Especially after putting up 26 HRs and an .850+ OPS last year. That would be like the Sox releasing Paulie, who has been sucking ass just as badly at the plate so far this year. The rationale is completely freaking retarded, especially for a player who has a long history of slow starts. The only other reason you release a player three weeks into the season is behavioral issues. And despite that being a much more believable excuse (given Frank's past), the Jays front office are using the ridiculous performance-based-on-60-at-bats line. If Frank was still putting up Juan Uribe numbers in late June, then the Jays releasing him based on "performance" due to age/diminished skills would've been justified. But doing so right now means only one thing: They don't want to pay him the $10 million that they'd automatically owe him next year if he got those extra 300-some at-bats this season. They want him off the books next year so that they can spend elsewhere. Releasing Frank isn't necessarily "being cheap." It's added payroll flexibility for younger players next year. And I'm sure that they Jays will take advantage of this, given their history for over-paying for free agents. Agreed that whether or not the Jays THINK that they can compete this year is up for debate. However, their actions - kicking a still-productive HOF DH to the curb three weeks into the season - suggest that they're not terribly serious about it. Perhaps they're now beginning to realize how stupid some of their signings over the past few years have been, and they're trying to cut bait. I'm not saying that Frank and his mouth didn't contribute to his downfall in Toronto. For all I know, it very well may have. But that's not what the Jays are telling us. And while they certainly do have the right to do what they did, I'm all for Frank calling them on it. I just wish that he would've complained to the MLBPA, rather than the media. I say $5 mil because the option is for $10 mil. So they could have paid him $10 mil more for two years of production. Essentially, they're saying that he's not worth even $5 mil a year to them. It may not just be his numbers. It may be that they think his swing is different, that he's slowed down. Or it may be his mouth. Or it could simply be that they think the team is better with Matt Stairs taking those abs with someone else (Adam Lind, probably) taking Stairs's abs AND his innings in the field. (As has already been pointed out by a few people, Stairs was better last year and started this year better). I'm not saying they're right or wrong, but it's not an unreasonable thing to believe. That leaves Thomas on the bench, less than worthless because he's going to bellyache endlessly about it. It's not unreasonable to think Thomas was not valuable on the field to them, whether or not he still has value to someone. (I think he does, for the record.) But it is a stretch to think that a team that has proven itself more than willing to spend, with its best chance in a long time, would shoot itself in the foot to save a meager $5 mil a year. That just doesn't add up.

Chase Utley -- holy s***. That team, every year, has so much talent, and still nothing.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 10:20 PM) I know. But the "n00bs" didn't know the "lingo." Yeah, but part of the fun is figuring that out...

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 08:42 PM) Chavez is very good, but Crede in '04/'05 was comparable in the field, IMO. Year Ag Tm Lg Pos G PO A E DP FP lgFP RFg lgRFg RF9 lgRF9 GS Inn Crede 2004 26 CHW AL 3B 144 91 243 12 23 .965 .951 2.32 2.34 2.43 2.64 142 1235.0 2005 27 CHW AL 3B 130 95 243 10 27 .971 .957 2.60 2.49 2.72 2.76 122 1120.3 Chavez 2004 26 OAK AL 3B 125 113 276 13 31 .968 .951 3.11 2.34 3.10 2.64 125 1129.0 GG 2005 27 OAK AL 3B 153 121 301 15 27 .966 .957 2.76 2.49 2.82 2.76 153 1348.3 GG Inge. And it sucks that the thread title was changed.

QUOTE (WCSox @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 08:04 PM) All the more reason to dump a 40-year-old DH before they owe him $10 million next year. They already know that they're not going to make the playoffs this year with the Red Sox and Yankees in their division, so why not retool now and have $10 million available for somebody else next year? And they're basing that decision on three months of at-bats? I suppose that the 26 homers and .857 OPS that he put up last year doesn't count. Using that logic, the Sox should dump Paulie, who has also been hitting like crap in the same small sample size of at-bats. It wouldn't surprise me at all if Frank didn't get along with certain people in the organization. But their use of the "lack of production" excuse three freaking weeks into the season is nothing short of bullcrap. Their "indefinite" benching of him is also a complete sleaze move. I'm not saying they made the right decision, only that it's pretty silly to think they wouldn't pay $5 mil per year for someone they thought would help. You may be certain that the Blue Jays can't possibly compete in that division, but that's hardly unanimous. It's not hard to make a case that they have the best starting pitching in the East. Their lineup, though definitely not the best, is good enough to win. We're not talking about the Orioles, here. And I'm not completely certain, but I think the Red Sox and Yankees were in that division when they signed all those guys I mentioned. And, maybe you have better information, but as far as I know they'll probably be there for the duration of Rios's contract. So it's odd that they're still spending money, since they have absolutely no chance ever to win. The Jays thought -- THOUGHT -- that Thomas was basically useless to them. You can disagree with that, but that's beside the point. A team with a history of writing jawdropping free agent deals (Ryan's stunned the hell out of me) is not going to avoid a mere $5 mil per year for someone who could, in their minds, significantly help their chances this year -- a year when they are, if anything, stronger than they've been in years relative to the rest of the division.

Toronto isn't a cheapskate team. They paid big money for Ryan, Burnett, Wells. They'd pay $10 mil for two years of production, if they thought he could provide it. They may not want to pay him, but it's because they don't think he helps the team, not because they've suddenly become the Marlins North.

Agree with Extras. Although it is probably better watched in sequence, but I'd say the same about Entourage, which made your original list. Really, The Simpsons has just got to be there. "Christian charity? What's a porn star got to do with this?"

QUOTE (DonnyDevito @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 01:30 PM) he got the ring by default more than anything...he didn't do JACK on the field that year. He didn't play much, and his ba sucked, but he still produced when he was around. 12 hrs in a little over 100 abs -- not a bad contribution.

QUOTE (DonnyDevito @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 01:27 PM) Can't Frank Thomas ever be happy? He's been living in $7 million mansions for decades. Can't he ever just STFU for once and do what's best for the team opposed for himself? That's the one thing I'll remember about the Big Hurt...he was selfish. And that's probably why he never won a ring. Kenny made those comments about Frank Thomas for a reason. Umm...

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 01:11 PM) I understand that, but he also could spend the rest of the summer at the beach. I know, I'm just saying it's a little misleading to say they're paying him X for one season of work if he can't receive more than X for 2 seasons of work. Just an issue with the phrasing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:59 PM) Maybe we can take up a collection for the Big Whiner here's his contract details, basically the Blue Jays are paying him $18.2 million for 1 season and 60 ABs and people think he's being screwed: Thomas gets a $9.12 million signing bonus that is payable in January, a $1 million salary next year and $8 million in 2008. The deal includes a $10 million vesting option for 2009 that would become guaranteed if Thomas has 1,000 plate appearances in the next two seasons or 525 plate appearances in 2008. Well, it's still basically 2 seasons. If he plays this year, he won't get any more than $18.2 mil, just a small part of that will be paid by another team, if I understand it correctly. If he could get the Blue Jay money and sign a completely new deal, then I'd agree, but it doesn't work that way.

QUOTE (max power @ Apr 20, 2008 -> 12:48 PM) So this isn't about money at all? Please. I know you're asking kyyle, but my 2 cents -- suppose that's true; they're still willing to pay him about $8 mil to just go away and avoid only $10 mil. So Frank is worth less to them than $5 mil per year. If a team doesn't think a player is valuable, why should they give him abs?

Holy s***...

Hawk and DJ should make up their mind (singular). First they say that 3 throws means somebody made a mistake. So even if Juan makes the throw earlier, someone screwed up. Then they say if Juan makes the throw earlier, there would have been no problem.

QUOTE (BobDylan @ Apr 19, 2008 -> 03:45 PM) Smoltz and Rivera aren't going anywhere. Smoltz can put up 200+ K if he finds a way to pitch all year. And though he started the year on the DL, he's pitched 200+ innings the past 3 seasons. Even if I end up with only 180 IP out of Smoltz, I'll be pleased. I'm also totally fine with Rivera. Especially with the early success he's having this year. Him and Smoltz aren't the one's I need to worry about. It's Hoffman and Cordero. I'm trying hard to deal off Meche, but he's not getting any innings with my team. If I can't trade him, he's dropped for Kazmir. I'm more than pleased with a 1-2 punch of Smoltz/Kazmir. But, later in the year I'm going to have to consider trading one of them for a more stable horse. Agreed, but I wouldn't just drop Meche for nobody and put in Kazmir. You might as well pick up someone on the dl and stash him. Pedro would be a great one to stash, if you can get him for Meche (doubtful), but even if it's just Prior, what's the harm?

Mike Royko compared switching Sox/Cubs loyalties to a sex change, only more serious. So I guess liking both makes you a hermaphrodite. No thank you, sir...madam...whatever...

QUOTE (ChWRoCk2 @ Apr 18, 2008 -> 09:44 PM) I'll gladly take that #1 waiver of yours, ya know.....you do have the power to swap our spots. Eh Definitely don't want that nub Saito. Sidenote, how sick was that Marcum pick. I'm more sick about throwing Cain tonight. That's gonna hurt. This week blows. I want last week back.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 18, 2008 -> 09:12 PM) I'm working 3rd shift tonight. I'll be up. Actually, my pitching is pretty solid, I'd have to decide who to drop. Plus since I got Cueto, I'm #12 in waivers. Last week would suggest, not solid enough...

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 18, 2008 -> 08:59 PM) Or I can, since you got slammed by starting him tonight. Yeah, I'm gonna drop him tonight, but not right away, so you'll want to stay up REAL late so you can see it and put in your waiver claim before you forget. You know, otherwise there might be a bunch of moves after that, and you wouldn't even notice it cuz it's on the next screen, and you don't want that, so just get the coffee ready and keep refreshing. Yer just sore about your big lead vanishing last week.

Hey, after tonight, he may be able to pick up Cain for free.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 18, 2008 -> 07:31 PM) Rivera and Smoltz for a top 5 SP might be a possibility if a gm needs saves. Yeah, you might be able to do that. But if I'm BD, I don't think I'd make that offer. I don't think the gain in quality is worth the good innings you lose. If those innings are replaced by more Gil Meche -- eh, no thanks. I understand what you're saying, I think I just expect more out of Smoltz and Rivera than you. I still like my solution better.

QUOTE (knightni @ Apr 18, 2008 -> 07:05 PM) I'm saying that if you can trade Smoltz and Rivera to someone for Cain and Jenks, you should. Well, first, that wouldn't solve BD's problem. He needs to open a roster spot. And second, I think those deals would be close to even, not a clear win. Cain, especially, isn't likely to get many wins on that team. And you know I'm a big fan of Cain.