Randar68

QUOTE(OilCan @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 09:58 AM) For anybody: Can someone from the A-level go to the AZL? Yep. Valido is on the squad coming from Winston-Salem. The end of the season is not the end of the season, so to speak, for guys at the lower levels. A lot of them go to Instructional Leagues that offer the most one-on-one time with coaches... That being said, Wes needs to have the light go on for the mental aspect of pitching as much as anything else (repeating his mechanics wouldn't hurt either)...

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Aug 26, 2005 -> 07:11 AM) I thought Young was taking Sweeney's place? I don't think it's been decided yet if Sweeney will need to have surgery on the hand/wrist. These rosters always change up until the last minute, so these are just preliminary lists that have been submitted. Heck, maybe Kenny's thinking of bringing Chris up in a week?

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 08:20 PM) I'm not ready to annoint Haigwood for future Cy Youngs, but I really like this guy's makeup and haven't heard anything but good things. And his stuff, might be better than you think. Well, let me ask you this... What else is he throwing these days? Last year, his change was pretty meager and I know he's been working on it. A good curve is hard to get called for a strike consistently at the upper levels and the majors, especially for an unestablished pitcher. How is his change? He's always had a good curve and great instincts. He probably needs to have 3 minimum, 4 probably, good and reliable pitches, IMO, based on what I've seen of him previously.

QUOTE(Rex Hudler @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 05:19 PM) I hate to make the comparison, but Haigwood reminds me of Buehrle with a better curveball. No, he doesn't have the 90+ fastball, but neither does MB. While I agree with you that his margin for error is less than a guy with better stuff, I really like what I have seen from him. He really knows how to pitch and his breaking balls are definitely PLUS pitches. Remember Cotts wasn't breaking 90 when he got called up either. The comparison is most relevant due to their "crafty" style of pitching. But recall previous comparisons with Buehrle in Ulacia and Josh Stewart. Cotts was throwing 90-93 in the Future's Game. Buehrle can hit 91 when he needs to. As you know, though, I'm not the biggest fan of the radar gun and hope Haigwood is the exception like Buehrle was. Also take a look back at Buehrle's numbers in the minors. He barely walked anyone.

QUOTE(heirdog @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 03:33 PM) Haigwood has some of the filthiest stuff in the organization....according to BMac so I take his word for it over any of us fans. Ahhh yes, the gospel that is a fellow player... Sheeesh. If BMac said the world was flat you'd believe it. "stuff" is the last thing I'd cite to describe Haigwood's success.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 12:35 PM) The yankees and Red Sox have prospects?? This thread has gone on long enough. If you want to cite specifics, then fine. I already named teams that have brought up rookies and not played them full time. Cinci, TB, Cubs, Sox, Det, LA, Sea, Min among others. In some cases the rookies have played themselves into starting roles. But in some cases they rotate days playing with others. If you want to argue your one-tracked view on the issue, PM me, because im not looking at this old thread anymore to see other paragraph about your "expert" opinion on player development. Perfect, because you've babbled on without substance or evidence for far too long already! Robinson Cano. Did he ride the bench first? GMAFB. You gonna site non-contenders like the Detroit, TB, Mariners, and Cinci who have been giving just about anyone at the AA or above extended looks and have rosters full of rookies? Never mind that you failed to produce a single specific example AGAIN! Sheeesh. The only thing one-tracked is your absolute ignorance. I revise my previous statement... "This is like trying to explain particle physics to a 2 month old child"...

QUOTE(Middle Buffalo @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 11:18 AM) What ever happened to Lorenzo Barcelo (sp?). I know he had surgery shortly after he was acquired ("white flag" trade, I think). Anyone know? Several surgeries/injuries... no longer with the organization and out of baseball as far as I know. Last surfaced in 2003 with Fresno of the PCL in the Giants organization.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 10:56 AM) You are moving Dye to a position he has played once in this uniform, and single digit times in his career, please. He is also too good defensively to make him a full time DH. Trading your starting CF'er who is potentially a gold-glove hopeful now and in the future to replace him with an unproven prospect is ridiculous. All of your theories line up well with a team that is rebuilding. Unfortunatley we arent in that stage of our organization. Anderson is not going back down to AAA next year, he is up for good. Which is where he belongs. And the door is open for him to play his way into the lineup. If you are going to trade anyone is YOUR scenario its Anderson, because he is the least proven player, and being that we are going to be trying to repeat this year's success, you dont rebuild. This is all the way back around to the fascination with Aaron Rowand? Good Lord. .750 OPS players are extremely replaceable. You watch Lew Ford play CF this series? Rowand might not be the 3rd best OF'er if he were on the Twins roster (if you include Hunter). On top of that, Anderson is not a defensive downgrade from Aaron Rowand. If anything, making Rowand the 4th OF'er makes a lot more sense than making Anderson the 4th OF'er... Jermaine Dye is an athletic guy who has had trouble staying healthy in the OF the past 3 years other than this year. 1B or DH keep him healthy and keep his bat in the lineup. You're telling me that Dye could not learn first base in the 5 months from the end of October through opening day next year? He must be some kind of mental midget to not be able to learn a position they stick the most immobile and defensive liability players at... The Yankees and Red Sox find ways to play their rookie prospects everyday when they do bring them up and their lineup is higher-paid and almost exclusively veteran. I'm not advocating replacing half the lineup with rookies, simply one position/player. Yet, apparently, that is synonomous with "rebuilding"... yeah... ok... :rolly

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 10:57 AM) BTW, a majority of all players on rosters are veteran's so your sample size is a bit off. Look at the benches of the contenders in either league and you'll find almost exclusively veterans. They've been around the league, know how to handle themselves, had regular starting jobs at some point in their career and know what they need to do at this level to be ready to play on-and-off... That is WAY too much to ask of almost any prospect/rookie. Stop speaking in vague generalities and show me valuable examples of where teams do what you are suggesting and it doesn't stunt the growth of said prospect...

QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 03:50 AM) However, if you main focus is to win, then that player has to play when he can and earn his way into the lineup. That is why guys like Timo Perez have jobs. You don't go around ruining prospects and messing with major league regulars with part-time on-the-job-training of prospects. That is what the minor leagues are for.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 25, 2005 -> 09:04 AM) For the 2006 WS we have 3 starting Of'ers coming back. Which one of them would you like to displace for BA? His defense and power would be a great asset to have as a 4th OF or a replacement depending on performance or injury. He doesnt need another year in AAA because he has proven he can play at that level. Its time to get him seasoned for the bigs. He is not a lights-out prospect, and very well may not be a surperstar, but he may be able to step into the starting role with some more time up, and some experience. As for Young and Owens, they will have another year in the minors with a possible mid-season call up. Thats my POV, whats yours? I would still move Dye to 1B or DH and you now have a spot for Anderson. Unless they resign Konerko, at which point I trade Aaron Rowand for bullpen help or prospects and put Anderson in CF, leaving Dye in RF. Again, you stunt the development of a prospect by sitting them regularly. If he isn't playing almost every day, leave him in AAA. WTF is the point of AAA baseball if it isn't "seasoning for the bigs?" I don't disagree about Young/Owens other than what I have previously said in that Young has the type of talent to force the hand of Kenny Williams to make room for him.

Is Nanita putting himself back on the fringe prospect map? He has really nice OBP and average numbers and I will be curious to see if he can duplicate this season in AA next year. I know he is a little older than most in High-A, but he was a very raw prospect from day 1...

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 09:44 PM) I'd put it McCarthy Gio Haigwood Broadway Liotta -- He's still a little old for his league. I'll believe it when he dominates at the higher levels. I still think everyone rates Haigwood too high, but that's just me. His "stuff" doesn't rate in the top 10 in the system, IMO. It's a long-shot for him because of that. Fewer pitchers than ever make it in the pros with sub-90 fastballs. Here's how I rate them in terms of potential and weighing in the realizability of that potential: 1st tier, guys with front-of-the-rotation potential (not aces necessarily) McCarthy Broadway 2nd tier (#3-5 starters or bullpen guys) Gio (lot's of potential, but endurance and pitch-counts keep him from being in the top group, I don't see him as an inning-eater type) Tracey (still think he ends up in the bullpen) Liotta Haigwood Bajenaru Guys who have bounced around but could still be impactful in a bullpen or as an emergency starter: Munoz Diaz Guys who have injury questions but TONS of talent (Frankly, all 4 of these guys have top-of-the-rotation "stuff", but injury and mental aspects affect some of them) Lumsden Malone Honel Whisler Good potential but a long ways away: Russell, Harrell, Richard, Brooks, etc... Could be missing a guy or 2, but overall, I'd rate them: 1) McCarthy 2) Broadway 3) Gio 4) Liotta 5) Tracey 6) Haigwood - still young, and getting results despite mediocre peripherals 7) Bajenaru 8) Lumsden (IMO he'd be minimum top 3 if healthy) 9) Malone - injury/durability questions 10) Honel - same as Malone 11) Whisler (I still think he's about top 5 on potential alone, but who knows if he can stay healthy or improve consistency or the 6-inches between the ears?) 12) Haeger? Knuckleballers are always a wildcard, LOL!

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 02:47 PM) I know Malone is supposed to be a lock. Given that and the fact that they usually send 6 guys, I suppose we could just guess 3 pitchers and 3 position players, I would say here is your likely list: Tracey Young Valido Rogo Reynoso Malone

QUOTE(Chisoxfn @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 01:33 PM) I had heard that Young was going to play. The names I have heard at various times are: Tracey Honel Sweeney (appears to be Young in place now) Valido Rogo Reynoso Malone I'm pretty sure Valido, Tracey, Reynoso (if he gets permission) and Rogo are all but sure-things as of today. How the rest shakes out, I have no idea.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 08:20 AM) What!!!! Anyone you bring up from the minors has to start? Thats news to me. In fact if he started every day he may be worn out by the break. You have got to be kidding me. Anyone who is anyone huh? He has to play his way into the starting lineup, just like most of our prospects have had to do over the years. This is like trying to explain particle physics to a 2 year old.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Aug 24, 2005 -> 01:48 AM) A lot of good ballplayers have hit the majors as a part time player. Anderson can do just that and learn how to be a major leaguer until he forces his way into the every day lineup. When you are a contending team, you hand a starting role to an unproven rookie. Once the kid forces your hand, then you make room for him. Not before. There's a reason why the bench players on contenders are almost exclusively major league veterans. Position players do not equal pitchers... Pitchers can see action out of the bullpen and learn a lot in a short period of time. Position players must play regularly. Frankly, not to be an ass, but anyone who doesn't recognize this doesn't know a damned thing about baseball or player development at the very least.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 23, 2005 -> 03:46 PM) thats not what im saying. I think that Anderson will be the 4th OF'er next year, but there is no room for Young and Owens. Dont try to make it into an argument that its not. The debate was whether or not Young would come up and start. You're right. The argument is over if your IQ is greater than your age if you think Brian Anderson will be kept on the roster as the 4th OF'er next year sitting 5 days a week. That is simply asinine. Then again, I guess he's going to have to prove he's an everyday major league OF'er by playing 2 days a week... Good lord... hit the rock some more, Raines...

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 23, 2005 -> 09:28 AM) Until Anderson proves he is ready to be a starter, he shouldnt. Dye, Rowand and Pods are all better at their positions. Anderson could be a fill in for a short period of time, no problem. But Young is not ready and needs another full season in the minors before he is ready to start. LIke you said, there is no reason to make him sit the bench when he could be playing everyday at AAA. When a prospect plays his way into the majors, the team makes moves to accomodate it. They don't bring guys up to sit benches and they don't keep them in the minors if they feel they are ready to be an upgrade for the big club. If they don't need the prospect, they trade them for help they DO need. Again, this is why Kenny Williams makes the big money and we're posting on the internet. For any of these kids, they will not have them in the majors if they aren't going to play a majority of the time, that's a given. But, at making the minimum, the Sox also provide themselves the chance to upgrade elsewhere by trading those players they wish to replace... We'll see, I just said I'm not putting it out of the realm of reason...

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 23, 2005 -> 08:53 AM) In two years they wont be on the bench, they will possibly be starting with Dye, and Pods possibly being gone, Young and Owens will fill it when they are ready. Next year if you bring them up they will be rotting on the bench with much better and experience and costly players in front of them. You proved my argument of not moving them up next year, thanks. Unless Dye goes to first or someone is traded or injured. Again, I haven't proven anything other than Anderson is ready now, will be starting somewhere in the OF next year with the Sox or someone else, and Young, if he continues to evolve the way he has thus far, could very well force himself into the picture in the spring or very early in the season next year. As I said before, I wouldn't be surprised to see Dye or Rowand not in the OF for the White Sox on opening day next year. Heck, Dye could be the DH.

QUOTE(Yeast Confection @ Aug 22, 2005 -> 10:51 PM) How about 850 OPS - which is what Rowand will have next year... versus Anderson who may (or may not) be a glorified Borchard? The value of pointless projection based on nothing but one's personal "gut feeling" while ignoring all past performance of said player... What a contribution to the discussion.

QUOTE(Yeast Confection @ Aug 22, 2005 -> 11:22 PM) At least I didn't compare Whisler to Mark effin' Prior. Yep, comparing mechanics and a pitcher's ability is one and the same... That is like saying, since someone said player A had a Zito-esque curveball, that they compared that pitcher's ability and potential to Barry Zito. Don't hurt yourself making ignorant, stupid, and inflammatory leaps of logic...

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 23, 2005 -> 08:29 AM) How so? What makes you think Anderson will be starting? Dye, Pods, Rowand, done. Young and Ownes havenet had experience above A until this year. They arenot ready to come up and contribute next year, nor is there room. Keeping and seasoning prospects is how you run a franchise, apparently you missed the bus on that one. Yep, they need to be seasoned so they can rot on the bench in the majors instead of playing everyday... GMAB :banghead

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 22, 2005 -> 09:44 PM) He's faced Johan Santana and Randy Johnson and oh yeah... Brad Radke... Guess we should write him off... LOL... (not snapping at you WHarris) what a joke. Some chemically imbalanced people around today...

QUOTE(RockRaines @ Aug 22, 2005 -> 04:03 PM) We all know Anderson is due, and I think he take Timo's spot in the offseason, but we cant assume that AA players should be brought up right away. Maybe in 2007 they will be ready to step in and start, but right now, next year is a stretch. Yeah, the place for a young player to grow is sitting on the bench 5 of every 7 games. Great. I have not assumed anything. However, Young made a 2-level jump and is having an MVP type season as a hitter in one of the best pitcher's parks in all of baseball and has steadily improved as the season has worn on. That's damn impressive and his physical tools far outstrip anyone else in the system. Those things being considered, all I am saying is that I'm not putting anything beyond reason for this kid, including making the team next year.