hitlesswonder

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 09:32 AM) I'll be really honest here and say I doubt it. Maybe a year, two, or more down the road, but not in 07. He has too many holes in his swing, and the Sox rookie have a terrible history of having long swings that don't adapt well to the majors. Agreed. Look at Fields strikeout numbers -- they are worse than Brian Anderson's and we all know how that turned out. Fields doesn't have the contact rate to succeed in the big leagues: southsidesox posted a comparison between him and Johnny Gomes that showed pretty similar minor league numbers except that Gomes had way more power. And Gomes isn't in the bigs. Anyone that expects any White Sox prospect to come up and have anything resembling success at the big league level is delusional. The system is absolutely barren. That being said, I'm all for calling up people and letting them play. It's possible a miracle happens and someone shows some talent or has enough of a hot streak to jack up their trade value. The season is already in the tank, so the Sox might as well play young guys.

The Tigers just released Jose Mesa. Signing him would move KW a step closer to his dream of acquiring all of the key 1990s Cleveland Indians players. I look forward to his eventual signing of a 45-year old Omar Vizquel as well

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 11:36 PM) So the other ~$25M is simply pocketed? Can we fire KW now just based on the possibility that he may put together a roster similar to this? Other people here would know better than me, but I think with attendance dropping this year the 2008 payroll will be close to the 2005 level (75 to 80 million). So, I think the payroll figure is pretty likely correct. Certainly there won't be room for a signing of someone like Ichiro, Hunter, or someone like that. I think the thing to expect is a couple of signings of lower-level free agents to inflated contracts because the Sox will have enough money for that and need to bring in some bodies. And, really, wouldn't it be worth it to see Erstad and Rowand in the same outfield? Imagine the moment when they put each other on the DL by colliding while diving for a ball that rolls for an inside the park HR. I bet it would happen opening day.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 08:52 PM) Can we move down Russell after today? 4.04 ERA in BHAM = not a prospect. Broadway did better than that and he's not a major league prospect either.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 11:28 PM) That team might not win 50 games. True, but it gets my vote as most likely roster for next season. I think this one is pretty spot-on.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:42 PM) I'd enjoy seeing Gio called up. Give us another thing to add to the list of exciting aspects on this team. I think it wouldn't be a bad move. I don't think he's a great prospect, but he's the best pitching prospect the Sox have. If the Sox will fill a rotation slot in 2008 from the minors, odds are it will be Gio. They need to see this season if Gio can keep the ball in the park against major league hitters. If he can't, the Sox will know they need to look elsewhere to fill out the 2008 rotation. I think it's a good idea to bring him up, even though I think it's going to be a HR-fest.

QUOTE(Dick Allen @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) Its not far worse. He's been awful with KC before and he's always a good bet to wind up on the DL. Thornton was a bust until last season. He wasn't going to make Seattle's roster in 2006. If you go with the theory that relievers are good then bad, how can you rely on him in 2007? Mac's career ERA is 3.91. For 2007 it's 7.13. That is far worse. The theory is that relievers are volatile, not that they are good then bad in a pattern. One benefit of going cheap with a reliever is that it's easy to cut bait. The Cubs can't do that with Eyre and Howry. I agree that KW would have done well to bring in one more veteran like Justin Speier. But if Mac were doing well or one of Masset/Sisco/Aardsma had panned out things wouldn't be the absolute debacle they are right now. You can argue Williams deserved to be canned for the absolute travesty of a minor league system he has, but I don't think the way he built the 2007 bullpen was obviously stupid.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 10:22 PM) The problem is what constitutes a "strong" bullpen changes from year to year. Ask the Cubs about that one. You can try and sign some of the few guys that have been able to remain effective out of the bullpen on a somewhat consistent basis. But those guys are few and far between and they often end up closing somewhere which makes them even more ridiculously expensive. This really isn't as simple as people try to make it sound. I agree. You can fault WIlliams for the current outcome, but the way he assembled the bullpen was defensible. The back-end of Jenks, Thornton, and MacDougal should have been pretty good. The key really is MacDougal, who if he was performing like he did in 2005 and 2006 (3.30 ERA those 2 years) would be a very good setup man. It's hard to claim Kenny should have foreseen him pitching far worse than he ever has before in the bigs. Williams gambled on Aardsma, Sisco, and Masset and lost on all of them.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 09:38 PM) This is the sort of crap that people start believing because of the crap coming off the keyboard and tongue of Jay Marriotti. What is it with all this reactionism? Kenny is one of the most proactive GM"s in all of sports. He'll address things as he sees fit. But a knee jerk firing or silly trade will get this team nowhere. Kenny Williams is the 5th best GM in the Central division and has overseen the "construction" of the worst farm system in major league baseball. If Kenny wants to be really proactive here, his next move might be to fire himself.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 09:38 PM) That would be insanely retarded. I agree...I was just guessing at what further catastrophically bad move could be made that would fit in with the way the season is playing out. And I came up with that. And then I realized the Sox minor league system is so bad it wouldn't even matter if they traded two of their top 5 prospects for a middle reliever, because the Sox minor league system is a wasteland....

Anderson and Fields for David Weathers? The sad thing is that a trade that bad in principle wouldn't even hurt the Sox in long run since neither guy projects to have impact in the bigs anyway...

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 3, 2007 -> 07:19 PM) That's even more emabarssing. We spend 100 milion on a team and a team that doesnt come close to what we spend wins the division 5 out of 6 years. The payroll disparity generally hasn't been that great until the last 2 years. The payrolls from 2001-2005 in millions of dollars: Sox payrolls: 65, 57, 51, 65, 75 Twin payroll: 24, 40, 55, 53, 56

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 2, 2007 -> 05:08 PM) Kenny has had almost no part in the drafts the last few years, so good try. As for Crede, who knows what the hell we would have got for him if we traded for him, and Fields would be sucking majorly at the plate right now as well, not to mention playing average at best defense at third. Williams is the GM. Having the worst farm system in major league baseball can be laid directly at his feet. At the major league level, I agree that he's been adequate -- no terrible moves of late and no great ones either. But the minor league system is a debacle that may doom the Sox to irrelevance for a decade. It's not unreasonable to call for him to be fired for that.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 01:43 PM) Kalapse the one thing I really like about your comments is the use of young and hungry. It appears the Cleveland Indians are just that, and the White Sox are not. I see a guy like Thome being hungry and also believe he is too much a pro to not be. Several of the others I have my doubts. How hungry were the Indians last year? They were even younger then. A lack of talent, not desire, is holding the Sox back. They punted on 3 spots in the lineup which meansthe count on excellent performances elsewhere. Some guys have sucked because of injury (Crede, Iguchi). Others have just been bad (Konerko, Dye). The Sox simply don't have the offensive depth in the lineup to handle key players not playing well.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:05 PM) I was expecting more creativity from KW. hated the Garcia trade, as he was our best chip to go ahead and add another talent to the major league team. When you look at how much the Astros gave up to get Jennings, I really think we could have gotten more than a good, but not great prospect, in Gio and the crap that is Gavin Floyd. I honestly think Gio's best value to this team would be to trade him again, as his numbers are skewed by pitching in Birmingham and padding his stats against a few real bad hitting teams. I agree. If the Sox had any chance to trade some of their young pitching prospects for a young 1 or 2 hitter, KW needed to do it. Instead, Williams got all freaked out about the market for pitching and just accepted the worst OF in baseball. There's no excuse for going into a season with 2 .650 OPS guys starting in the outfield, because when other players underperform there's no way LF and CF can pick up the slack. The bold move Williams needed to do last offseason was trade either Dye or Konerko. Maybe PK has a no-trade clasue but If he could have shipped Konerko to the Yankees, Angels, or Orioles for younger players it would have gotten the Sox out from under a bad contract very gracefully. Trading Dye would have been selling very high, and watching his defensive drop off, it's clear that was really the move that should have been made. An MVP-like RF playing for that cheap would have brought something good in return. Of course, that's all easy to say in hindsight. As for Gonzalez, I completely agree. Just because he's the Sox best pitching prospect doesn't mean he's a good prospect. He has a significant problem with home-runs that was exposed in Reading and is hidden in Birmingham. The Sox should sell high because in all probability Gonzalez will fall off the prospect map when he has to pitch in Charlotte.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 12:26 AM) I wonder if we might have been discussing a Benitez for MacDougal type of trade. Of course, Benitez was traded to the Marlins late tonight. The way this season is going it will be Jenks for Vizquel...

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 12:23 AM) The Tribune is reporting that the Giants have had a scout in attendance at the last two Sox series. Maybe we're seeing if we can trade one of our AARP players for one of theirs. Don't they have a young 2B they could trade? I thought I read something about that.... or how about the Sox trade them AJ for Lincecum, Cain, and Lowry...that seems to be the going rate given what they paid last time....

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) Then what's the point in keeping Crede? KW must have SOME reason. And I said it would only be a possibility if Teixeira were to sign an extension, which I also said was HIGHLY unlikely. I have yet to see any other realistic ideas. Baldelli? Griffey? Sure, we won't have to mortgage our future for players who will probably go down in a heap, just like Erstad, except they'll cost us Gio, Russell, De Los Santos, Fields or Sweeney. Do you think opposing GM's won't laugh at KW's predicament when he tried to take the cheap approach by signing Erstad and now he needs to bend over and pay the piper for not partaking in the crazy market for Matthews, Pierre and Roberts? Pierre = .312 OBP and .650 OPS Roberts = .283 OBP, elbow surgery Matthews = .800 OPS + good defense (very good year so far, although the PED thing is a cloud). Anyway, KW would still be screwed if he had signed either Pierre or Roberts.

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:52 PM) Anybody who thinks Erstad has done an admirable job is out of their f***in mind. Regardless, there seem to be a lot of posters on the board who think he was performing pretty well. I was trying to point out that, given that, it would be bizarre for people to think a rookie putting up those numbers was bad. QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:54 PM) If you could live with the strikeouts, I'd expect a the improved batting eye Fields to put up a .230/.325/.400 line right now. That's far from disastrous. But Where Would He Play?

QUOTE(WhiteSoxfan1986 @ May 31, 2007 -> 11:07 PM) Chris Young has a .314 obp right now. I think he's going to be a good player, but if Fields came up and put up those kind of numbers everyone would be ready to crucify him. Darin Erstad has a .313 OBP and most posters think he has done an admirable job. Young has 6 HR and 6 SB and a .780 OPS playing CF. That's fine. If Fields came up and did that it would be awesome (in fact, he doesn't even have to play CF -- 3B is fine )

QUOTE(Kalapse @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:36 PM) I'm shocked it took him this long. Kenny Williams has had a terrible couple months and one of the worst offseasons a Sox GM has ever had. Williams acceptance of the worst outfield in baseball before the injuries, and the reliance on the likes of Terrero and Mack after them to fill the "void" has been bad. Very bad. But one of the worst offseasons a Sox GM ever had? I don't think so. He didn't sign Navarro...he didn't trade Sosa for Bell...he didn't trade for Todd Ritchie (OK, he actually did but not this offseason) and those are just recent offseasons. In hindsight, he should have been more radical and ripped up the team, but I don't think that was obvious at the time. QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 31, 2007 -> 10:48 PM) The act is getting tired, however. I think we should all write a letter to Kenny Williams begging him to draft/develop some prospects that succeed in the majors (aside from Chris Young) so that quickman will stop. It's the only solution I can see

QUOTE(Heads22 @ May 31, 2007 -> 08:28 PM) Wherever there's a struggling prospect to be commented on.... He has yet to be wrong about any White Sox prospect...

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ May 31, 2007 -> 09:56 AM) Moves I would like to see IF we go into sell mode: Contreras to the Braves for Salty and Elvis Andrus Buerhle to the Mets for Fernando Martinez or Lastings Milledge and Phillip Humber or Deolis Guerra Dye to the Dbacks for Carlos Gonzales, Alberto Callaspo, and Tony Pena Garland to the Dodgers for Preston Mattingly and James Loney. Crede to the Phillies for Michael Bourn and CJ Henry Just my opinion, but I think you'll be very disappointed in the return the Sox get when the sell off this season. Contreras won't fetch Andrus alone, let alone Salty to boot. Jose is old and that contract would be an albatross for Atlanta. Dye migth fetch a single C level prospect (think of the Ray Durham trade). Garland and Buehrle I think could get the same return the Sox got for Garcia -- a B level pitching prospect. Crede's back, performance and cost make him untradeable for anything valuable. The problem with a poorly performing team is that you can't get much for players playing badly.

QUOTE(caulfield12 @ May 30, 2007 -> 09:18 PM) If you go to the front page of the Tribune right now, there's a poll question, would the White Sox be better off without Ozzie? 43.5% said yes. I find this funny, since the Cubs have an even worse record in a much weaker division, yet there are no polls about firing Piniella that I've seen. That's because Piniella is a much better manager.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 30, 2007 -> 03:18 PM) No, it was serious. There's no way we're bringing back Buehrle or Dye, and moving Iguchi could allow KW to go out and try to find a more athletic 2nd baseman. Thome is an interesting case, but I'd lose no sleep if he was dealt. Danks is the only player the Sox shoudl be hesitant to trade. And even he, obviously, should be moved at the right, steep price. There's not a single player on the roster to build around. If KW has a big budget ofr 1 more season he should use that and the available talent to completely remake the team.