hitlesswonder

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 10:58 PM) What about a combo of Buehrle and Jenks for Salty, Lillibridge/Escobar, and Devine? I think Buehrle and Jenks could possibly bring back Salty and Lillibridge/Escobar. Given that there's a good chance the Sox won't be competitive again till 2010 dealing Jenks might be a good idea. Bad teams don't need closers.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:05 PM) Wait, Hall and Cintron don't strike you as everyday players? I think the team needs more aging ex-twins whose legs are about to fall off. Maybe sign Tony Batista to play SS.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:04 PM) I think it's amazing how KW said he'd be in charge of the draft, yet he never saw Poreda pitch live. We might break the Bulls regular season win record with that team. Probably not a good night to say who everyone compares him to. It's hard to believe an organization that seems so inept won a World Series in 2005...

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:58 PM) Isn't that what we did by drafting Poreda instead of Porcello? That's right -- the Sox looked at Poreda & saw a guy that can't strikeout college hitters even with his 96MPH heat (that's 96MPH in "White Sox MPH" which translates to 92MPH in the real world) and immediately project him as a left-handed Brandon Webb that pitches to contact and never allows a fly ball. Great scouting.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:55 PM) I'd love to have Aaron Miles at 2B next year and if KW could pry him away from McDonalds I'd love to have Stubby Clapp take over the DH role from that base clogging asshole named Thome. You forgot to mention that Thome is "unclutch"

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:45 PM) everytime i see Terrero in CF, a ball hits off his glove only to end up rolling along the ground. not to mention i've seen him take poor angles to the ball, only to dive, and let the ball go right by him. Erstad's defense in CF is underrated. he doesn't drop the easy ones like Terrero does. that's why we need to throw a boat load of money at Tori Hunter. no that's defense, northsidepolish17. Torii Hunter has a career .792 OPS and .324 OBP. His defense is on the decline and he'll be 32 next season. He is not the guy to sign to a 5 year $13M contract.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:35 PM) Oh yeah....it's not out of the question to think this team might be competing with the Rangers next year for the worst team in the AL. At least we'll get to see Vazquez and Contreras throwing 85 mph. Great post -- people that think the starting pitching is in great shape for next season are in for a rude awakening. The Contreras and Vazquez contracts are albatrosses -- I don't sea a way the Sox will be a winning team again until 2010 (post-Contreras).

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 08:22 PM) I really would like to hate that Tiger team -- seeing that they are from Detroit and all -- but I just can't. That team is so f***ing fun to watch, that organization is so well run, they definitely deserve every ounce of the success they're having right now. I agree. I think Dombrowski is a HOF GM. And he could have been the Sox GM...but instead Jerry & Co. preferred the likes of the Hawk. Detroit also is willing to pay draft picks above slot signing bonuses -- they are run like a major league club unlike some others that prefer to draft lousy players that will be easy signs.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:54 PM) It would be asinine to trade Dye for anything less then 2 good prospects/young ML players because it is a guarante that we get the 2 draft picks in free agency anyway. The 2 draft picks aren't certain. First of all, the Sox would have to offer arbitration and they might not. One reason would be that they don't want Dye back and are worried he'd accept. They second reason is that they may not want the picks because then they have to pay out signing bonuses. The Sox in the past haven't usually aggressively looked for extra picks, so I don't know that they will this season.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 09:29 AM) If the Reds get Billingsley in return for Dunn, I'm going to be super pissed. The Sox weren't going to get Billingsley for Dye anyway. There are a lot more attractive options for LA out there (like Dunn) that aren't hitting .216 with a bad knee. I think the Sox will hold onto to Dye till the deadline in vain hope of turining things around and you'll see a Jon Adkins-like return for him. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 12, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) What "major league ready" players were being offered for a an 85mph Freddy Garcia? Given the package Houston gave up for Jennings, you can assume the Sox could have done better for Garcia. They could have gotten Taveras + prospect from HOU you would think.

QUOTE(Friend of Nordhagen @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:27 PM) Maybe. But until Josh Fields can hit a fastball, I'm not sure he's much of a prospect. I agree. Fields looks like a non-prospect to me. He just isn't going to hit major league pitching. Another fine job by the Sox scouting and development team. QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 11:57 PM) The holier than thou, bright and sunny, we won it all 2 years ago so your an idiot for not liking us going from World Champs to 3rd worst team in the AL in 20 months people are just adorable. If you find this acceptable, there is a team 8 miles north that would enjoy your money. But KW has failed 6 of 7 years now, and our system lacks talent. That is pretty bad in my book, but hey whatever you say bud. I agree with that as well. Anyone that thinks it's out of line for someone to suggest the Sox need a new GM needs to look hard at the minor league system. Worst. In. Baseball. It's completely devoid of position prospects and it's lone pitching prospect has numbers propped up by a bad hitting league and a huge home park. The Sox have made the post season once under Williams. That's indisputable and not a record to brag about. QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 11:26 PM) The organization is WORSE OFF than it was six years ago? You're kidding, right? Please, show me how the Sox organization is worse off now than it was six years ago... This should be classic. If it was a true statement, you might have a point. The Sox organization had far more talent 6 years ago than now. This year's draft looks like a suckfest as well, which means the Sox are likely 5 years away from producing a young talented player -- but at least they'll be in position to get one since they will have a top 5 draft pick in 2008. The organization is clearly worse off than it was 6 years ago.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 06:18 PM) Just get rid of Dye while he has any value. He's killing this team right now, and the more his BA slips towards .200, the less value he has. I agree -- Dye & Cintron for Betemit would be fine with me. I doubt the Sox could do better by waiting.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 06:47 AM) That's very promising to hear. Let's hope Floyd can keep this momentum up, and force his way up into the big leagues for us. It seems like he may be getting things together. Wow -- 2 OK games and now he's on his way. I don't think there's any sign of a corner being turned yet, although it would be a career first if Floyd managed to master the opposition in AAA. If he does end up pitching as well in AAA as Felix Diaz did for an extended time then he may merit a call up. I still wouldn't put money on him getting big league hitters out. Also, does everyone really think he has "good stuff". I only saw him in spring training, but it wasn't obvious to me that he had exceptional anything (admittedly, I know nothing about pitching).....

QUOTE(Jimbo @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 10:34 AM) terrero and gonzalez looked awesome yesterday. gonzalaz is huge, is he a big time spect or just crap? Gonzalez isn't a prospect, but he could probably bring as much to the table as Cintron now. Gonzalez is known for a very good arm, bad hands, and not much hitting but some ability to take a walk. Gambling on him as a cheap bench player for 2008 would OK by me. At least it would save money and if he fails to do the job the Sox can make a change easily enough since he doesn't have a big contract and should have options left.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 11, 2007 -> 09:03 AM) If we would trade Dye to the Dodgers it would need to be for Billingsley and either Hu or DeJesus Jr., maybe even Mattingly I guess if we wait a couple weeks. But someone who will lend middle infield dpeth to the organization. Two organizations have given up on Betemit in two years, we don't need that kind of trouble right now. I think people are crazily overestimating Jermaine Dye's value. He can't run and his OBP is below .300. He's shown some power this year, but that's all he brings to the table right now. There are a lot of guys that will be on the market with at least that skill set, and maybe more. The Reds alone will likely be trading Dunn and/or Griffey both of whom are more attractive. The Sox won't get either Billingsley or Broxton straight-up for Dye. They might be able to get Betemit for Dye, but that's it. I think people are going to very disappointed in what the Sox firesale brings back.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 11:24 PM) You want somewhat reasonable? How about Buehrle and MacDougal for Saltalamcchia and Yunel Escobar? Probably not enough to get it done, and I don't really know what to make of Escobar. I just know that ATL would probably be willing to trade him with Renterria/Lillibridge and another 18 yo SS that they really love. Salty they want to leverage for a real need, but with Smoltz, Hudson, and Gonzalez hurt, Buehrle will be the best starter available and MacDougal has good stuff. I think targeting a SS and C would be a wonderful idea (not that I think Uribe and AJ are actually the biggest problems on the club by a long shot). But those positions are so hard to fill, getting talented young players locked in would be great for the long term health of the franchise. It also makes AJ tradeable, and despite his reputation I think he could bring a decent prospect in return. I do think it's not enough for the Braves -- I doubt they trade Salty for Mark and Mac let alone add in Escobar. Maybe the Sox could throw in Gio and Anderson. Or maybe just do Buehrle/Mac/Jenks for Salty/Escobar.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) McCarthy does not have the stuff to be a 2 or 3, and Danks does. I don't think that's true at all. At the risk of sounding like I'm making stuff up, one of the scouts who assessed the trade for (I think) ESPN said that McCarthy had the better stuff and the higher ceiling -- if they both pitched to their potential McCarthy could be a #2 and Danks a #3 or #4 (for those that want to use that vague ranking system). I think the implication was that Danks had a better feel for pitching, but lacked overpowering pitches. That seems validated by his current performance. His fastball sits at 90 but he's pitched OK for a rookie. I wouldn't be surprised if McCarthy ends up being the better pitcher, but unless Danks falls apart the difference in service time should help make the trade a wash.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 06:03 PM) Now I'm concerned about the velocity for Jenks. His pitch speed was way down today. He shouldn't be sitting in the 91-92 mph range. Also....what is the point of having Gonzalez on the bench? He might be the most useless roster member we've ever had. I think Jenks would be a good guy to sell high on right now. He's an injury waiting to happen, and the Sox aren't going to contend for anything in the next 3 years anyway -- bad teams don't need a closer. Would the DRays trade Upton for Jenks, Gio, and Sweeney? If so, that deal would be fine by me. Maybe Jenks and Gio for Longoria would be OK instead....

QUOTE(Palehosefan @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:25 PM) Tough crowd, a reliever with a career ERA of 3.03 and 1.88 this year at 30 years old makes people want to puke. Cameron would add speed, defense in CF, and would be off the books just like Jermaine at the end of the season. You gain one of the better relievers in the game and the first shot at re-signing him. As for Khalil Greene, why? We already have the darker version of him in Juan Uribe. Becuase Greene is young and people think his offense would pick up playing in the Cell. Anyway, I don't think SD will trade Linebrink/Cameron for a gimpy Dye and a non-prospect. Which is just as well, because 2007 is over on the south side. Time to ship Dye off for a AA reliever and hope he miraculously turns out to be useful...

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 03:51 PM) Anyone who is against rebuilding ought to read that sentence repeatedly. We're old and our young prospects aren't very good. Our division rivals are younger and have good prospects. We're just going to get older and worse. It's time to take advantage of our players' value. It's pretty clear at this point that the Royals are a better team than the Sox. I fully expect the Sox to finish behind KC. Worse than that, KC has a bunch of good young players. Given that the Sox have the worst farm system in baseball, I think the Sox may finish behind the Royals for several years to come. Back in 2005, The Sporting News knew what it was doing when it named Shapiro as the Executive of the Year instead of Williams.

QUOTE(santo=dorf @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 06:25 PM) So why not trade Broadway for someone who will actually be with the White Sox for more than half a season? Because Broadway has no trade value? Every scout can see his 86 MPH fastball and knows how well that will translate to the major league.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 09:19 AM) I completely agree with you but if GIO is truly a #2 guy like everyone on this board says he is, then didn't he get the max for him? You figure a #2 lefty (which I don't beleive) and a past #1 pick (who I think sucks) was pretty good for a guy who lost velocity and will want a 5 year deal next year. Now you and I most likley agree that what we got in return for freddie actaully sucked but the majority of the kids on this board Love the great GIO. The Gio love is delusional. No one in baseball outside the Sox think he's a future #2. Look at what the Rox got for Jennings and you know Williams made a bad trade for Garcia.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 10:46 AM) I like Gio....I just don't see him as a #2 pitcher in the majors as people are pencilling him in for around here. If he ends up being a #4 for the next 5 years, then I have no problem at all with that. And yes, Adam Russell is quite overrated by some also. His best opportunity to help this team is as a power righty set-up man. I do like saying my comments are ignorant though, as everything I said about Gio was relayed to me by about 5 minor league experts. We need to call him up to AAA, as pitching in a hitter's park will give him a better example of what it's like to pitch at the Cell. We need Gio to be our Rich Hill. Adam Russell is barely a prospect -- over a 4.00 ERA at the Met is not a sign of future success in baseball. As for Gio, I think you are dead right. You can look at BA, Sickels, whomever and he isn't rated above a B prospect. He is not a top-tier pitching prospect. Once again, Sox fans are failing to differentiate between being the Sox best prospect and actually being a good prospect. Odds are Gio never makes it to the bigs because of injury -- he simply doesn't have the frame to sustain the amount of pitches he throws. And if he does make it, the lack of movement on his fastball and his problem with homeruns probably make his ceiling as a #4. The minor league guys you talked to know more about Gio than the people that post here, so I'll go with their impression.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 8, 2007 -> 10:34 PM) I like Shelby, but don't expect him to continue at this rate. He's unsustainably hot right now. 9 of the last 10 times he's made contact, he's gotten a hit, and 5 of those were for extra-bases. Shelby's glove at 2B is supposed to be pretty lousy, to boot. He's the kind of prospect that gets moved to LF and loses basically all vale away from the middle infield.

QUOTE(Heads22 @ Jun 9, 2007 -> 12:36 AM) I doubt Anderson would be worse than Owens/Sweeney/Terrero in the 3rd OF spot. Sadly, he would be. Terrero is ten times the player Anderson is (or at least has a career OPS 70 points higher). Ozzie was right.