gosox41

QUOTE(Jenks Heat @ Sep 18, 2007 -> 10:29 AM) This team needs its all-stars to be all-stars. The Indians went into the season with the same questional players at second and third and a worse outlook in the pen as the Sox will have next year. If the players that are paid to produce produce and there is more health they will be fine. They need to sign some bench players that can produce for modest salaries not the Mackowiak's of April and May and Alex Cintron of the whole season. I feel the entire division will regress next year and if the Sox make some moves, they will be right back near the top. I think A-Rod and Rowand sit atop their shopping list along with a couple of Japanese players. The way this team is set up right now, they can barely afford Rowand let alone A Rod and some Japanese guys. Bob

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 14, 2007 -> 04:06 PM) Dan Evans ---> Paul DePodesta ---> Ned Colletti I'm sure he helped, but using the term "a lot" is probably wrong. At the very least, both Evans and DePodesta restocked the Dodger farm system. I'm certainly not saying Evans is a great GM but I did a little research and here are some guys Evans drafted who play or played for the Dodgers in 2007. Some are more then just backups here due to injury. James Loney Matt Kemp Russell Martin Delwyn Young Chad Billingsley Jonathan Broxton Eric Stults Not too bad for 2 drafts and no top 10 pick. I won't bother drawing comparisons between this and the Sox farm system because then we'll start the whole WS debate. Aybe we would have won in 05 with Evans maybe not. Maybe in '03, maybe not. But that's all the past. And the honeymoon is ending fast (IMHO)for KW, which led me to writing this thread to begin with. Winning may have bought him a ton of respect and favors but finishing in last place in the AL Central with a $100 Million payroll helps us forget the good old days, especially if it happens 2 years in a row. Wouldn't it be great if the Sox had a productive farm system. Sure I like Fields. But a good farm system may have helped us avoid last place this year and could only benefit next year. Bob

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 01:02 PM) I'm not sure I'd say Colletti has been better...but that doesn't mean DePodesta did a good job. Just remember...both of those guys were brought into essentially a better situation than even the White Sox have had...a team that can afford a $100m payroll, and on top of that, have had an absolutely loaded farm system (as opposed to the Sox). And yet all they've managed to pull off was a playoff birth back in 04 where they were pounded by the Cardinals and which probably consumed Gagne's arm in the process. Didn't Dan Evans have a lot to do with the loaded farm system that Colletti inherited?? Bob

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Sep 13, 2007 -> 11:36 AM) I wouldn't say this is true. It may be what he is saying, but if he really thinks this team can "go for it next year" without major changes the guy has lost his marbles. Maybe not every core member will be back but let's look at the core players: PK-KW loves him but he does have trade value Thome-No trade clause Dye-Limited no trade clause Pierzynski-You can dump him, but the SOx have no one remotely close to him Fields-Will definnitely be here because he's young and cheap Buehrle-Almost a full no trade clause including one that covers this offseason Vazquez-Limited No Trade Clause Garland-Most likely to be traded Contreras-Would love to trade him, but who wants him. Also has some form of a no trade clause Danks-Young and cheap, not going anywhere Jenks-Not going anywhere I named 11 players that are the core (though I don't know if you want to include Fields and Danks because they're young but seem to have bright futures). That's ober 40% of the 25 man roster. How many of theseguys do you think will be gone net year? Bob

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 09:16 PM) It's funny because it seems JR is giving him until 2012. Even JR may be sick of being the laughingstock by then..or maybe 2012 is when the Sox will be good again because as one of the alleged minor league "experts" that post here told me, it takes years to rebuild a crappy farm system. Bob

We're all aware of what KW did to bring a WS Championship to Chicago and I'll always appreciat him for that. And as I've said before, I think this team is in for more pain next year unless the Sox jack up their payroll to cover their holes. That being said, KW has made the decision this year to keep the same core and to go for it next year. He could have easily decided to rebuild and have a couple of years to get this team in contention. It's not a bad PR decision, but if KW can't work his magic, it's going to be a disaster that will screw this club up for more then a year or 2. If the Sox maintain their current payroll (or better) and don't legitimately contend for a playoff spot next year, then KW should be axed. I'm not even demanding a playoff appearnce before I axe him, just a legitimate shot at contending. There's no excuse for a team with this high of a payroll to be floundering in last place in the AL Central. Bad breaks or not for 2007, KW is taking a huge risk next year. He knows the variables-that Thome, Dye, and Crede are injury risks. That the no trade clauses in MB, JD, and Thome's contract hurt the Sox chances of rebuilding faster. Just like KW should have known to put Floyd in the rotation back at the beginning of August to see what he's made of instead of waiting until September. KW has a tough job, but he put himself in this position. IMHO, he gets one more year. If this team can't legitimately contend (say within 4 games of a playoff spot come Sept. 1) then boot him. Because if one finishes last or even below .500 2 years in a row in the AL Central with a $100 million payroll, then one has to question why he has this job. Bob

QUOTE(Allsox @ Sep 12, 2007 -> 07:06 PM) Yes, Thome and Konerko are power hitters, power hitters that when they aren't hitting the ball out, they're working over the pitcher by drawing walks, driving the pitcher's pitch count up and having to force the pitcher to pitch from the stretch and throw strikes to the next batter. Thus, increasing the next batter's chances of driving them home or, heaven forbid, moving them up at least one base so the next guy has an opportunity to drive them in. David Ortiz does that as well and is just as fast (Or slow) as them, yet I don't hear Red Sox Nation calling him a base clogger. I agree about AJ, he rarely walks but he also hits usually .270 with 15+ HRs for a catcher. I can take that good with his bad anytime from that position. The same goes for Dye. I appreciate what Thome and PK bring to the table and realize their value of high OBP. I wish we had a team out guys who at last carried a .350 OBP. So you're betting what KW is betting, that Dye and AJ had fluke bad years and will bounce back next season to their career norms (which for Dye is .338 OBP and .327 for AJ). Now let's add Crede to the mix, he has an OBP of .305 for his career and his best year, 2006 was at .323. So now we essentially have 3 slow guys who aren't so good at getting on. Of these5 guys I mentioned above, 2 have bad backs incluiing one coming off surgery and one who is in his upper 30's. One plays the most physically demanding position on the field and gets banged around, and one has a histoy of fluke injuries. That leaves PK as the most reliable statistically and physically. All these guys have value, but KW is taking a big gamble in relying on these guys to be the core. He better get some solid complementaty players to back these guys up because we've seen way too many times what happens when the core players slump...we suck offensively. KW is the guy preaching OBP and speed. I agree with it. He needs to execute his strategy. Am I saying dump all 5 of these guys--heck no. If you assume Fields in Richar are going to be in teh starting line up next year then KW better pick up a damn good CFer and SS who can be more then a threat to hit a home run or else we're in for more pain next year. Bob

"Base cloggers mean getting on-base. That's a good thing!" -Allsox By base cloggers I mean guys who are no threat to steal, rarely break up DP's and lack the speed to take the extra base and eliminate the force. They're one dimensional hitters--they hit for power. Also, Thome and PK are the only 2 "base cloggers' this year on the Sox wh hae higher then the league average OBP of .335. So AJ and his .318 OBP isn't even the league average, nor is Dye and his .317. Let's hope they go back to their career norm next year as that would put them average for the league. Besides it's been KW who's preaching guys be more like Thome and work counts and focus getting on base. Thome's OBP is .409 this year. Let me know when Dye and Pierzinski get to .375 for a full season let alone .400. If KW wants to build this team on speed and OBP then all I'm saying is he not getting the right personnel. If KW wanted older pwoer hitters who can't run but can jack out 30 HR's a year and strike out a lot, then he's doing an excellent job of putting that together. Bob

I think KW painted himself in a corner. He has a very difficult task ahead of him: rebuilding a team that may not win 70 games this season while doing so with a budget where a lot of the money is already tied up. For the record, if the Sox jack their payroll up $15-20 mill (and I have no reason to believe they will) then they can legitimately contend. But if not, I don't see how KW is going to be a contending team next year let alone finish .500 (unless part of his plan is to move to the NL Central.) Right now the Sox have $94 mill tied up into 14 players. Add $5 mill more for Crede and it's at $99 mill. If the Sox jump up to a $120 mill payroll they have a shot. Let's look at the projected 2008 team with comments of their value/drawbacks: 1B- PK. He is one of the 3 most marketable players on the Sox both for PR and being tradable. He also posts an above league average OBP but is a base clogger. Do you trade the capitain? 2B-Richar-I like him and think he'll be good. He's fast, has good strike zone judgement and makes the minimum. I think he can post an aove average OBP and be a decent stolen base threat SS-BLANK Could be anyone as long as it's not Uribe. Will it be Eckstein? Renteria? I doubt it's A-Rod. Eckstein is the cheap alternative who is on the downside of his career. Renteria makes $9 mill next year but may be traded this off season by ATL. No to Vizquel. 3B-Crede Coming off back surgery so it does make one wonder how many games he'll be good for. If healthy will be a base clogger, have an average OBP and play gold glove D LF-Fields-I like him and see good things for him. Average speed, needs to take more walks. CF-BLANK-LIke SS, an On Base machine would be nice here. Torii Hunter would cost about $14 mill per year. No to Rowand as he is so overrated it's sick. Andruw Jones is not an option due to Boras. RF-Dye-Just signed with some sort of no trade clause. Makes $11 mill per year and is injury prone. He was signed because the farm system sucks. No way he repeats 2006, but is still a threat with potential for above average OBP but is a base clogger. C-Pierzynski-Don't know if the pitchers hate him or not, but he's by far the best catcher the Sox have. Oh yeah, he's another base clogger. DH-Thome-On base stud but power is decreasing. Not the hitter he was and has no trade clause. Base Clogger. So while KW preaches OBP and speed, the Sox have 3 guys who can get on base above the league average in their starting line up, and if you opeate under the assumption that there will be speed at SS and CF, then the Sox have 3 guys out of their starters who can steal bases. Can they get on base or is the CF going to be Owens-great speed, below average OBP. Is this a championship calibe offense. 6 power hitting base cloggers. We've seen all too often what happens when they slump all at once. As for starting pitching: Buehrle-No trade clause, best pitcher on team Vazquez- Limited no trade, cheap based on 2007 numbers but may be having a career year Garland-HIm and PK are the 2 guys with any real trade value. The Sox have enough holes to fill to trade him. Contreras-Gets $10 mill next year and there's virtually no demand for him. It'll be hard to give him away to dump salary let alone trade him. Might hae to trade him for another teams disappointment with a big contract. Danks-Good upside, cheap. Assuming Garland is gone, can the Sox win with 2 good starters (MB and JV), one guy who's still living off a hot second half in 2005 and first half in 2006 (JC) a second year pitcher and a rookie like Floyd or Gonzalez? Is this a championship starting rotation. let's take it one steo further and assume the Sox can dump JC. Is adding another rookie to the starting spot a good idea. WOuldn't KW be basically rebuilding the starting pitching? Bull Pen This is a mess. Not everone will be replaced. My guess is Jenks, Wasserman, and Thronton will be back. Probably Boone Logan too. They'll add at least 2 relievers, but none will be studs which makes them a risk. Though this would not be as great of a risk as Cisco. So there it is. KW has tied up enough money in crap to make it hard to strengthen this team without weakening it in another area. Sure some of the periphery players like Cintron will be moved to save some salary, but it's not enough to get Torii Hunter and Renteria, unless of course the Sox jack up the payroll. Also, very little of KW's stated goals will be achieved. He wants speed and OBP? Not from this line up. This team has 3 of the slowest guys in the league in Crede, PK and Thome. OBP of this team looks piss poor. And what was it KW said back after 2005 about always having 5 quality starters and hinting toward having veterans. Good luck with that if JG is traded to free up salary. Is Gavin Floyd a quality starter?? maybe, but right now he's a big question mark. Bob

QUOTE(drive like jehu @ Sep 4, 2007 -> 09:45 AM) 2) Jerry didn't win the championship... The players did. And in 2007 Jerry didn't finish with a crappy record and most likely in last place...The players did. What I find irionic is the general consensus at the beginning the season that the Sox were after 2007 because Dye and Buehrle were going to bolt. Well the Sox suck and Dye and Buehrle have been resigned. Most people didn't predict either scenario let alone both. Did JR screw up by allowing KW the flexibility to bring both these guys back? Bob

QUOTE(Tony82087 @ Sep 3, 2007 -> 09:35 PM) Everything would point to that. It seems that there are very few "high celling" prospects in the Sox system, especially positional. It's a huge problem that needs to be addressed, the sooner the better. However, that doesn't mean I'm going to "write off" Broadway and Phillips, before I ever see them in a actual MLB game. I just have a hard time with people giving harsh opinions on things they have never seen. I don't know about writing these guys off but I'd be ware of any Sox minor league pitcher that is called up to the majors. They've done a horrible job with pitching, and until there are massive changes, it's hard to belive guys with mediocre stuff that play for a crappy minor league system are going to be good. That being said, I'm all for seeing them just so I don't have to watch the current crop of suckholes pitch. Bob

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Sep 3, 2007 -> 08:44 PM) If Chad Durbin, Jason Grilli, and Todd Jones can all remain in the Detroit bullpen, then anything's possible. They're assuredly are not franchise savers, but give pitchers a chance before just completely writing them off; that's 3 pitchers - Phillips, Floyd, and Broadway - that you have given absolutely no chance at all. Floyd's turned in a mixed bag of performances, but he has a future in the majors, whether as a starting pitcher or reliever, and I'd imagine both Broadway and Phillips - much moreso Phillips than Broadway, but I feel both do - have a future in the majors, both likely as relievers or rubber armed 5th starters. The problem is Ozzie and KW are being idiots about how they are handling Floyd. Remember, I'm in the anti-Floyd camp, but since the beginning of August I've been saying that Floyd should be pitching every 5th day to see if there is any hope for him. Why not run him out there for 10-12 starts on 4 days rest. This crap that KW and Ozzie are pulling with spots starts is BS. I'm a firm belieber that young starting pitchers need to be in a routine when they first get called up to the bigs and get their feet wet. Kind of like teams not keeping a young stud eveyday player on the roster because it doesn't do him any good to get 3 at bats a week, it doesn't do Floyd any good to start him every 15 days. Floyd and the Sox needed to see Floyd get those starts to see if he can be relied on for next year. The last month of the year, they finally decide to do that, but even that's not written in stone. KW is a fool. Bob

QUOTE(stretchstretch @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 07:38 PM) those that write off the impact of Rowand's trade just see it to be too SIMPLE a way to bring a whole team down, but in doing so, continue to underestimate the value of chemistry and the impact on a clubhouse of a vocal fighter. Chemistry is nice, but it's overrated. I can name teams that have won it all with players having fist fights in the clubhouse to teams that got along great and sucked. The Sox have AJ and he plays with fire and is vocal. Being talkaltive and liked isn't going to make JC pitch any better. Bob

QUOTE(whitesoxmanager @ Aug 30, 2007 -> 04:01 PM) Tears swell in my eyes after watching the Phils win today. For all of you that thought Aaron Rowand wasn't going to be missed. I just wanna say a long overdue kiss my ass! So are you sayng the Sox would be in first place right now if the mighty Aaron Rowand were here? What if the Sox had Willie Mays in his prime here. Would we better or worse then if we had Rowand? The guy has put up 2 great years out of 6. Crash into a few walls and people lose sight of what he is: a career average OFer who is above average defensively but because he crashes into a few walls, some think he can walk on water. Bob

QUOTE(Hideaway Lights @ Aug 20, 2007 -> 02:13 PM) It's not that simple. His official salary listed this year is 1 million dollars. So then the Blue Jays paid Frank a $9 million signing bonus to take the winter off in 2007. Don't let a signing bonus misguide you in his average contract. The money is accounted for somwhere. Let's say the Sox signed A-Rod to a 5 year contract and game him $125 million as a signing bonus in 2008 and $5 mill per year for the next 5. Would he really be considered underpaid by you when compared to other SS's since he's getting $5 mill. per year. Would you say KW is a genius for signing A-Rod for Uribe money? Bob

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 21, 2007 -> 04:02 AM) Who has called him a future star? If you're talking about Fields, then KW did when he first brought him up. Bob

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 19, 2007 -> 05:24 PM) They're two pitchers with radically different styles, I don't see what the problem is. His point was Zambrano is a high mileage armed power pitcher who might not hold up for 5 yrs. I would say Buehrle has a lot of mileage. I skimmed the article so I didnt' get the point of being the power pitcher hurting him. To take this a step further, didn't Rogers think Colon was a good risk to sign after the Sox had him in 2003? Bob

1. Is KW auditioning to be the pitching and hitting coach. If every hitter on this team had Thome's OBP and Slugging Percentage we'd be in good shape. But the reason other hitters can't do what Thome can is lack of talent and discipline. In theory, it works great for hitters to see more pitches and work counts. But it doesn't work for everyone for various reasons. And what's up with his ability to fix Contreras? If you see the flaw tell him. If you want to be the pitching coach, may you can get more out of the bull pen then their 2007 pathetic showing. I doubt it. 2. It's not the worst thing in the world that the Sox are losing right now. This team has glaring holes that need to be shown so KW can address them next year. Since the core is coming back, he can now address the glaring holes that we all know exist and that a hot start after the All Star break won't make go away. 3. Now that the Sox will have a high draft pick next year, maybe we can stop hearing about how the Sox farm system is bad due to a lack of top 10 picks. 4. IMHO, Crede should be back at 3B next year. Fields will be in LF. If the Sox get a good hitting SS/CF you now have a line up that can do damage. Fields has some speed as does Richar to steal bases. If we do get a SS, Owens has speed and will be the lead off hitter. And hopefully whatever hole we fill, he has the ability to steal bases. 5. I was going to list all the players on the Sox who can't maintain the league average .335 OBP but found it is much shorter to list the one's who can in 2007: Thome Konerko Iguchi and Mackowaik are gone. No doubt Dye would be in there if he didn't have the lousy first half. Iguchi and Mackwiak were on the list and are no longer on the team. Go figure. 6. I like Richar a lot and think he will be a good player. KW made a good pick up here. Once he hits better (which will come with experience) he will steal more bases and have an aboveaverage OBP. He shows good plate discipline and strike zone judgement. Right now with a .170 AVG, he has a .306 OBP 7. Have Sox fans gotten dumber. I can't belive all the Rowand love. One moron called the Score yesterday sayng Rowand was the sole reason the Sox didn't make the playoffs in 2006 and flopped this year. Rowand is better then Borchard. But he's no Willie Mays. 8. In 2006 Sox management said tired arms weren't the reason why the starters sucked. In 2007, the'yve credited the bounce back to being fresher. Which is it? 9. I haven't seen it mentioned too much, but the Sox have done something most fans said they couldn't or wouldn't do. They re-signed 2 of their free agents. And they were the 2 expensive one's. Right or wrong move, give them credit for that. Hopefully fans are paying attention to that detail Bob

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't Phil ripping on the Sox earlier this year when the Buehrle negotations were going on? I remember him saying the Sox should cave in and guarantee him 5 years because he's a great player, the face of the organization, etc. Well today, he's ripping the Cubs for signing Zambrano to 5 guaranteed years going as far as pulling up stats showing most players get hurt. Which is it Phil? Are the Sox bastards for not givinga a 5 year contract for a great pitcher or are the Cubs idiots for signing Zambrano for 5. The best part of this is that since he took both sides of the same issue, he can tell everyone how right he is. Bob

QUOTE(29andPoplar @ Aug 16, 2007 -> 04:24 PM) Interesting comments, many of them. One, he wants everyone to know he's evaluating players on how good their at bats are. He is preaching OBP. Not a surprise to anyone who's been around him or talked to him at length. Hey KW, welcome to 5 years ago where OBP has been all the rage since "Moneyball" came out, and was far from unkown before that. Why not get someplayers taht can get on base???? Bob

QUOTE(daa84 @ Aug 11, 2007 -> 10:38 AM) tough to say....i would doubt that the market for him would be that high after only 5 starts at AAA.....but staying fair to sisco he was a guy who was rushed and never got to dominate at the upper minors...and never got to start....i say we hold on for a bit longer...i dont think his stock is high enough yet to "sell high" for something now. And if he does make many starts in the minors and lives up to the hype, I would find room in the rotation for him. A rotation of 3 lefties would mess with a lot of teams. Bob

QUOTE(SadChiSoxFanOptimist @ Aug 9, 2007 -> 06:31 PM) Hey, I've got an idea... Let's draft and develop a shortstop who can play in the majors! That's crazy talk. At least for this team. Bob

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2007 -> 10:15 PM) I could 4 candidates to actually be an OF next year, 2 of which I acutally think are pretty good (Fields and Owens). Anderson and Sweeney are at least 2 other candidates, they're just not very good options right now. Dye would fill that in. I hope you're right, especially about Owens. I love his speed. If he could just take a walk now and then. Bob

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Aug 6, 2007 -> 05:18 PM) Even with the main problem of this season being the bullpen...his main job is to fix the SS hole, and it's not even really close. We have lots of depth in the other spots. Whether or not they succeed is a different matter. I can probably give you 8-9 possible solid bullpen candidates for next year. I can give you 4 OF candidates that the Sox currently have, not counting Dye. I can give you 6 starting pitchers without counting Gio or Broadway. But I can give you 0 major league caliber shortstops on this team right now. Did you mean 4 OF candidates the Sox currently have, or the Sox currently have candidates to be 4th OFer's?? Bob

QUOTE(kapkomet @ Aug 6, 2007 -> 07:07 PM) It cracks me up the Rowand love fest on this board. I mean, I liked him and all... but not at the cost he's going to get this offseason. No kidding. The guy has posted 2 great years in his career, 2004 and 2007. 2007 is a contrtact year, but didn't he sign a deal after 2004? Anyway, the other 4-5 years he's been statisticaly average to below average offensively. Bob