nitetrain8601

QUOTE(VAfan @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:51 PM) The reason Contreras has to go is because he's signed for $8 million next year. Schmidt's option is for $10 million. Either we exercise it or sign him longer term. In any event, you have to subtract Contreras's $8 million to make it work on a zero-sum club like the Sox. We aren't Boston or the Yankees. Same thing applies for Uribe, who is signed for the same period as Vizquel. Again, Contreras is only 6 million and not 8 million. Yankees are picking up some of his contract.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 02:43 PM) I'm just hoping B-Mac throws a real good game today, which I think he'll do, to quiet down those who want him traded. Perfect situation for him to succeed today in a big pitchers park. ...or ruin any chance of a Schmidt deal.

QUOTE(Milkman delivers @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 01:17 PM) OK. I'm dropping it now. Schmidt >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>El Duque That's all I have to say. Career wise I don't know. I think Duque has a better ERA. Past few years, I'll give you the argument that he's better. As far as right now, Schmidt= or > El Duque, but they aren't far off in comparison as of right now.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 11:58 PM) I don't know s*** about this guy or any other college player for the matter, but you're putting him and Jason Kidd in the same sentence? That doesn't sound like nonsense to you? That's why I wait until these guys actually play in the NBA, and then I evaluate them. I find it odd that people will just compare some raw, unproven motherf***ers to NBA legends like Jason Kidd and John Stockton. Is nothing sacred? Yeah, let's put a stop to this. Otherwise, your review was informative, at least in my particular case. I just can't stand college sports. No it's not nonsense. You take into account what he did in college(individual and team accomplishments), take into account what he was for a team(if Illinois didn't have him, where would they have been last year) and his attributes(skillset and mindset basically). All things point to him being a Jason Kidd type point guard with a better jump shot. Believe it or not, but that's the gist of how players are evaluated and how they decide who is worth the #1 overall pick and who is not even worth drafting. Believe it or not, but he's a projected Jason Kidd. QUOTE(qwerty @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 12:39 AM) Wow. Add Gary Payton in his prime>Kidd KG>Kidd There's are tons of better players I would take ahead of Kidd as history goes on. Plus the fact that he's a malcontent with most coaches, it's not even hard to think those players are better than Kidd. BTW, I hope Amy Williams does a porn or something. Gawd is she smoking hot.

C'mon Royals.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Jun 29, 2005 -> 12:52 PM) Well according to people on the SF board he was hitting 94 and 95 on the gun last night. Granted its not the 97 he was throwing last year, but I would take him throwing 94 over El Duque and his 84mph any day of the week and twice on sunday. But he was a pitcher last year with great velocity and decent control. With his fastball being 5 miles slower, he's now an average pitcher because he has a 94 mph, but still only decent control. He needs to get his velocity at least up to 97 IMO to be effective as an ace. Right now, he's no better than El Duque which would make trading for him for that big of a price worthless. I rather have Burnett. Also take this into consideration. Boston and the Angels have hitting clubs that love to see the fastball and jack it out of the park, so when you pitch a Schmidt without all his velocity or even a Burnett, you'll be walking on water while being connected to a battery. You're just asking for trouble. If Schmidt gets it back to at least 97 within his next 2 starts, then I say it's okay to take a flyer on him, if not let him be.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 11:42 PM) The same people who think that Ozuna has a better glove at SS than Uribe. Nope, Ozzie thinks he's a GG calibur SS, but he just doesn't have any offense. I just think he's better defensively than Uribe, I don't know about GG calibur though.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 11:15 PM) Please. Uribe is struggling but his bat is still way better than Valdez's. Even Ozuna is 10 times the player Valdez is. Valdez was hitting .198 on the season. There's a reason he is in the minors right now. He has a good glove but absolutely no stick whatsoever. You said who's a better defensive player than Uribe who would be available. You didn't say better overall player. Valdez has a better glove than Uribe. Some think he may even be a GG defensively.

QUOTE(Jabroni @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 11:04 PM) It's much harder to find a good defensive SS than a 3rd baseman. Randa is out there and he is cheap. Can you name a cheap, good defensive SS that will be available at the deadline? Wilson Valdez.

Good thing you're not KW.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 10:41 PM) I don't get how you can support hanging on to Uribe while also supporting getting an upgrade at 3B. Their attributes are so similar it's scary. Neither is exactly a consistent hitter, but they both have some pop and play very good defense. There aren't exactly a whole lot of third baseman that can hit (only 18 qualified hitters are over .250), and many of them aren't available. Even assuming we do get one of them, we'd take a hit on the defensive front. Getting Chavez is one thing, but I don't really think the available guys are a major upgrade. I would, however, like to get a contact hitter who can play SS/3B that can give these guys some days off and give our offense a different look once in a while. Exactly. To me it's not worth it giving up top prospects for small upgrades at positions. If we're giving up BMac, I want an Eric Chavez or Billy Wagner. QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 10:44 PM) I highly doubt we are going to be able to get Lidge. He has outstanding stuff and is very cheap. Houston would have to be dense to get rid of him. I also would expect Phillly to hang on to Wagner as long as they are somewhere near the division league. However, someone is going to have a decent/solid reliever somewhere that can help. I highly doubt Lidge, but I was throwing him out for the sake of saying if he was available or someone like him is, it would better for us to pursue him. Wagner will be had in a couple of weeks as Philly's slipped back to earth and is on a skid.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 09:52 PM) Yeah, and he looks white too. So that will help. Well he is half white.

He officially has the hottest gf/soon to be wife in the NBA. Amy Williams is just amazingly hot. Anyway, about DeRon, you won't be dissapointed if you are a Utah fan. I'll try to give a simple breakdown. He's a big point guard who excels in the half court. Really knows how to control and slow down his team. He's a pace setter. If there's a fastbreak to be had, he'll make sure you'll score. He's great at setting up his own teammates and weaving in and out of traffic. He's a team leader. He's not given enough respect for his athleticism. He recently lost 15 pounds and he's faster than ever. He'll be something special and will make a great tandem with Andrei Kirilenko. In simple terms, think Jason Kidd with a better jumper.

That's seriously f'd up. I say someone gets outfield seats, sneak some chemicals to kill that ivy in. Poor it in their beer and drop their beef so it doesn't look that suspicious. Then slowly, we could kill their ivy. It's the least we could do to those bastages.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 08:57 PM) What reliever is available that is better than we already have? Not one reliever that is available will make a difference to our march to the World Series like Schmidt would. We have Jenks available to call up at anytime. KW has already said that there is nothing available in terms of relievers that are better than what he has in house either in the majors or minors. I agree with him. It makes no sense to not want to give up these so called prospects who have not made one contribution to our team in order to get someone that can and most likely will make a major contribution. How can you be so sure about Garland being this good for an entire year? Count is so erratic he is aggravating to watch. El Duque has already pissed off KW and Ozzie. And stop comparing us to the Angels, Orioles, Red Sox, and Indians. Our offense is so much worse than any of those teams that we have to pitch lights out in order to win. As much as their offense is better than ours that is how much out pitching has to be better than theirs. That is why we need that other ace starter. Why are you so concerned about our farm system or spending the White Sox money? Let them worry about that. Your posts are so contradictory to each other. You say that why are we so hell bent on keeping prospects who are just that and we don't know how they'll perform on the major league level, and then you say, Baj and Jenks will help out our bullpen??? Then you say we can't even count on Garland, El Duque and Contreras(the last two who won't even be significant impacts on this team come playoff time) who are veterans, but say we could count on minor league prospects relieving? I don't get you at all. And again, you don't seem to get the concept that we don't need another ace pitcher. Why? Because that will minimize probably Garland or Garcia's effectiveness which essentially would be benching an ace. So basically you're trading for a guy who is going to be benched(Ozzie is extremely loyal to his guys and will ride his guys over a guy who was traded for who has similar #'s to Duque and Count). I rather get proven major league relieving like Wagner or Lidge or a 3B or SS who are upgrades at those positions for this team. That is much more needed than starting pitching, especially when 2 of the starters are going to be thrown into the pen.

QUOTE(ZoomSlowik @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 07:46 PM) Yeah, let's assume an injury is going to happen to someone out of three of the most durable starting pitchers in the league and overpay for a starting pitcher. That sounds smart. My thoughts exactly. Let's worry about priorities before luxuries.

But we don't need a closer. Hermanson has it on lock down. He's great. A starting pitcher is much more needed ...my ass.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 07:09 PM) It's a matter of the sox gearing themselves to beat the other AL teams [LAA, Bos for sure so far]. Both have strong offenses [boston very tough, along with solid SP, weak pen but geared for a short series]. LAA has the solid SP and pen. The sox have very good SP, and having another SP in the pen for the playoffs makes it stronger right there. The sox have seen what very good SP will do for a team. SP's who can go 7, 8 innings a pop nearly every start are hard to come by. IMO, if one of the Sox big 3 fall off [due to injury, whatever] the sox can kiss a long postseason good bye. Getting a reliever to get 1, 2 or 3 outs is far easier than finding someone who can get 21 and only give up 3 runs or less. [that's my story and i'm sticking to it ] And the sox have in house options with Jenks and Baj [though I think a LHP like Scott Erye, Ron Villone or Ricardo Rincon could be possibilities to add] If a stud is available, and the sox don't acquire one by the deadline, AND someone goes down, KW will 2nd guess himself for a lifetime. In other words, you couldn't find a team. White Sox have solid pitching and a decent pen. I'll admit that the Angels have a better one so that's why we need relievers and not starters. You don't know how a starter will react in a pen minus Contreras since he's been there. We don't know how good El Duque will do out of the pen since there is not a big enough sample size. We don't know how Schmidt will do out of the pen. You said it yourself that we need a reliever that could get 3 outs and it's far easier to find one which means you don't have to mortgage your future and that you can get someone for cheaper than trading for a starter. You made my point for me.

QUOTE(hammerhead johnson @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 02:43 PM) Those are the two best defensive teams in the league, what are you talking about? That reminds me of what people were saying when the Pistons played the Pacers in the Eastern Conference Finals last year. Not enough excitement. Meanwhile, I was loving every minute of it like Doug E Fresh. Nope. At least not the first couple of games. Bruce Bowen was missing open jump shots(and I mean open) and airballing them. SA in games 3 and 4 couldn't run an offense. They had guys running into each other. Their spacing was horrendous.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:05 PM) Prior's an ace no doubt about that, Zambrano has more to prove last year he was fantastic this year he's been average and Wood isn't and never will be anywhere near an ace. Exactly, but I said it to help his argument. IMO, they don't even have 3 aces. But I'll give him time to come up with his list.

QUOTE(SoxFan1 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:04 PM) Uuuum, no. He is an All-Star. Everyday Eddie sounds good to Ozzie....reeeeeeal good. He has a half-torn rotator cuff injury. That does not scare you?? I know that would scare KW off.

QUOTE(Rowand44 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:03 PM) The cubs 3 aces are who?? Most people say Prior, Nut-Grabber and Mr. IR. So I gave him that one just in case he wanted to mention that team. I would say, even they don't have 3 aces.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 05:02 PM) Who are we giving up for Guardado? Doesn't Guardado's rotator cuff injury on his throwing arm concern you? Hell yeah. It's just a matter of time of his arm completely falling off. Plus you have to give someone up to get him.

QUOTE(beck72 @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:49 PM) Do the Sox have 3 aces? Right now I count 2 guys having great years, Jon and MB. Freddy has pitched very well at times. The sox have gotten this far based on their pitching. In order to continue their success, adding to the staff [before an injury/ ineffectiveness comes after July 31st] now makes sense, IMO. Okay, name me teams with 3 aces(with realistic shots at the playoffs). I guess if you want to count the Cubs and that's pretty much it. Bullpens are what you need in the postseason and right now, ours isn't that strong at all. It's good, but not as good as everyone else's. We also don't have an as good 3B as the rest of the teams who have a chance at the playoffs. That's coming from someone who loves Crede.

QUOTE(Wedge @ Jun 28, 2005 -> 04:52 PM) The Yankees Not this season... Look, if we can can rip off the Giants, I'm all for getting Schmidt. I just don't think that's going to happen and I don't know if it's worth giving up current major league players. Exactly. He would be a luxury and if we could get him for cheap, then hell yeah, but there are other things I'm looking for before starting pitching on this team.