jphat007

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 4, 2006 -> 12:00 AM) Maybe, but it's interesting nonetheless. I don't know if Contreras will be dealt or not but there's no way to know for sure right now. There's no way to know if Johan Santana will be traded tomorrow either. KW has said that he would consider trading JC in the right situation (ie. getting a really great pitcher that is ready to dominate in a rotation right now). Bobby Abreu and Gavin Floyd don't fit that need and most definitely make our team worse this year, when it is obvious that KW plays to win right now. It's only interesting because some guy on mlbtraderumors posted some BS rumor that a newspaper (real journalistic quality there) picked up and ran a story on it. ANd KW talking to Philly nine days ago doesn't make it any more interesting because like I say, I bet big money that he has talked to qutie a few teams about Contreras and a few other of our players. He's always looking and willing to listen.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 3, 2006 -> 11:50 PM) Sox deny Abreu trade Dye, Contreras part of rumored deal http://chicagosports.chicagotribune.com/sp...ack=1&cset=true It's interesting that KW denied the trade rumors but he does say that he talked to the Phillies eight or nine days ago. If Contreras IS traded, I doubt it would be until Spring Training. Why trade him now when you could just wait until ST and see if all of your pitchers stay healthy, especially with Garcia and Vazquez pitching in the WBC? I'd imagine that KW has talked to almost every team in baseball the last 8-9 days. PS. KW is not trading Contreras.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 08:45 PM) And sometimes you need to look at the numbers before you say that one guy was better in "big games." I don't know how anyone could judge Dye's and Abreu's performances in so-called "big games" on memory alone. I can understand remembering some key hits by Dye but I really doubt a Sox fan was watching Phillies' games last season and remembers how Abreu fared in his "big games." I actually watched quite a few games down the stretch, especially the Philly/Houston series in a HUGE wild card battle, where Houston prophetically swept Philly IN Philly and Abreu went 2-10 with a couple ribbies. Now, is it his fault they lost? No, it wasn't. But in games like that I want my 13 million players going nuts on the WC opposition. Of course, I'm sure they'll look at that series as they only lose the WC by 1. But throw out perceived "big game" anything. I still think your nuts to want to pay a player 9 mil more that put up .033, 20 more SB, and a little better defense over Dye. Dye is a luxury at the contract that we have him at. It just doesn't make sense to trade him for that kind of increase. And even if Abreu widens the gap a little, you have to figure that would decrease a little bit when he came to our park, even as good as a place that it has become to hit in.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 08:36 PM) I just didn't understand how BP had anything to do with the Dye / Abreu "clutch" argument. Point was you have to look beyond the numbers sometimes.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 08:34 PM) All 162 games of the season matter. Each and every game that is won contributes to trying to win your division. Abreu was a better hitter than Dye on the entire season last year and he was a much better hitter with RISP than Dye. This argument is ridiculous. You think a .033 difference in OPS, 20 more steals, and better arm while hitting in a better park is worth 9 million bucks. I agree, this argument is ridiculous.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 08:28 PM) BP doesn't have anything to do with Abreu being a better hitter and better overall player than Dye. Not sure why you even mentioned it. I don't need BP to tell me that Abreu is better than Dye. It's pretty clear and obvious. WHat does this have to do with anything. I've said that Abreu is a better hitter than Dye. What does this have to do with my argument?

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 08:28 PM) But, you know what they say, you cant win the division in April, but you sure as hell can lose it...thus, I argue that is the most important month of the year. Dye - .175 .205/.313/.517 Abreu - .261 .371/.341/.712 Now I hope you see how unbelievably dumb your argument is...because quite frankly, it is. One player cannot control the destiny of a team, no matter what point of the season you are at. If, hypothetically, Abreu had a month where he put up .400 .500/.750/1.250, and the rest of his team hits .200 .240/.360/.600, how is the offense going to perform? I didn't say it was his fault that they didn't make the playoffs. I said that he choked down the stretch when his team was in a position to make the playoffs. He might have carried that team on his back all year. Irregardless, at that time when the team was in the situation to make the playoffs, he struggled. If he would have put up great numbers, would they have made it? Maybe, maybe not, but I'm sure the philly front office would have liked to have seen Abreu put up the numbers that Dye put up in October, on the biggest stage their is. But then again, you thought Ruben Sierra was a great pickup for the Twins, so who am I to argue with a mastermind GM like you?

QUOTE(q\/\/3r+y @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 08:20 PM) Pretty weak arguement. First game of the year means the same in the standings as the last. I had already talked about overall stats. And increase in SB and OBP while hitting for less power in a better hitters park does not justify 9 more million dollars. Plus you have to like the fact that Dye stepped up in the playoffs, when Abreu was choking when the Phils were trying to get into the playoffs. Of course if we want to just look at numbers we might as well all look at BP and read about how we're going to finish in third or fourth this year because we played above our run differential. We'll see what KW thinks over the next month or so.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 07:57 PM) Oh no, not the "big game/clutch" argument. Better hitters are usually better in big situations because they are just better hitters to begin with. Jermaine Dye (2005 stats with RISP): 131 AB | .260 AVG | .327 OBP | .427 SLG | .754 OPS Bobby Abreu (2005 stats with RISP): 152 AB | .303 AVG | .444 OBP | .500 SLG | .944 OPS Jermaine Dye (career stats with RISP): 1,199 AB | .249 AVG | .332 OBP | .394 SLG | .725 OPS Bobby Abreu (career stats with RISP): 1,151 AB | .321 AVG | .454 OBP | .549 SLG | 1.003 OPS I wish Dye was as "clutch" as Abreu. Most important month for each player, when the pressure is the highest: Dye - .311 .415 .444 .860 Abreu - .250 .395 .396 .791 Abreu is the better player, but they are fairly equal with their contract situations, as DBAH0 agreed above.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 07:50 PM) I don't necessarily agree with that statement. Of course if you're a GM here, and you take on Abreu, suddenly that's about 8-10M less you can put into your team, so it signifcantly decreases your payroll flexibility. Consider this from Pat Gillick's point of view. If he could trade Abreu for Dye, and then sign a #1 or #2 starter in FA, you think he would jump at that? I think he would, because he knows how important good starting pitching is. And like I've said before, is Abreu gonna be able to keep stealing bases as he gets older, and will he be able to get back to the numbers he put up in the 1st half of 05 compared to the 2nd half? And his away splits from Philly, aren't really encouraging either. Another great post. 832 OPS away from Philly three year split wise. 805 last year as he gets a little older. BTW, for the others, I'm not bustin on Bobby. He's a great player. Lefty, can run and defend. I just don't think he's anywhere near an upgrade over Dye and his contract to the point of giving up a starter like Jose for.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 07:46 PM) How did I put words in your mouth? Read your last post... You said that Dye and his cheap contract is "fairly even" to Abreu and his large contract, therefore the trade is essentually Contreras for Gavin Floyd. I read that to mean that you think that Dye and his cheap contract has even trade value to Abreu and his large contract. Dye at his salary isn't slightly better than Abreu at his salary... not at all in fact. Even including salaries, Abreu is a pretty big upgrade over Dye. Not last year. Certainly not in the big games last year. He was better, but not 9 million better or whatever. ANd now that they are in similar parks, thats what I'm using to compare. Plus Abreu had a OPS under .800 in the biggest month for the Phillies in awhile.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 07:41 PM) I wouldn't bring Dye's career OPS into the discussions considering he spent quite a few years hitting in Oakland, which is a notorious pitchers park and how often he was injured over there. What he put up for us in 2005, he could even do better, considering the terrible start he had. Yep, agreed, which is why I focused on last years OPS, even though Abreu hit in a slightly better park. ANd Dye struggled at the beginning and Abreu struggled late

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 06:45 PM) Are you serious? Dye is going to put up an OPS close to Abreu's next season? Abreu had an uncommonly horrible second half last season and he still put up an .879 OPS. Dye ended the season with an .846 OPS. A difference of .033 points of OPS isn't really that similar to begin with. Abreu has a career .923 OPS. Dye has a career .803 OPS. Not gonna happen. And Abreu isn't "slightly" better than Dye. Abreu blows Dye away statistically... Jermaine Dye (career stats): .272 AVG | .334 OBP | .469 SLG | .803 OPS Bobby Abreu (career stats): .303 AVG | .411 OBP | .512 SLG | .923 OPS It isn't even close. By the way, Abreu with his large contract is still worth way more than Dye with his cheap contract. It isn't "fairly even." Do you think that the Phillies would trade us Abreu and his contract for Dye and his contract? Not a chance in hell. No, I didn't say they'd trade Dye for Abreu straight up, but I'm not surprised you try to put words in my mouth. FOr the purpose of this trade and what they will get out of each player for the money it is fairly the same. And Abreu put those numbers up in a slightly better hitters park, which goes along with teh contract. Abreu at his salary is slightly better than Dye at his salary and contract situation. (FIXED}And I bet their OPS' are fairly similar next year too Okday, I won't edit it up there but I obviously means Abreu is better than Dye, but slightly. Of course you've porbably already typed the response. And at their current salaries. I assume everybody knew what I meant though.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2006 -> 05:59 PM) Um... Why not a chance? On paper, it makes sense for both teams...KW is getting pitching back in return, gets a player he loves, while taking on no money for this year and then figuring out finances for next year at some other time. His goal is to win another championship...I don't think he cares how he does it. And a lot of times...though not all times...bringing in fresh bodies who have not won a World Championship will help. I don't like the trade...but I'm not going to rule it out. No, KW gets a PITCHER back in the deal. Pitching implies that they are good. Gavin floyd is not good. KW said and stressed that he will not trade Jose Contreras except for top, top pitching. Floyd doesn't fit anywhere near that bill. Additionally, Dye and Abreu will put up fairly similar numbers this year, in different categories of course, but I expect their OPS' to be similar again. So basically you would be trading an above average right fielder with an awesome contract for a slightly above JD outfielder with a mediocre to bad contract. SO that's fairly even. So pretty much you are trading a number 1 starter for Gavin Floyd, which just isn't going to happen.

LOL. You can bet they went on mlbtraderumors or got it from somewhere that heard it from there or a message board. Anyway. This trade isn't going to happen. Not a chance.

16-17. I'd imagine we'll throw a sweep in there somewhere. The only series that I'd be worried about is LAA as they'd be out for revenge, but their team sure doesn't look all that great.

Lohse is starting the season in the rotation btw. Liriano will come out of the bullpen.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 06:07 PM) He also has a career 4.28 ERA (league average ERA of 4.53 during that time) and 1.31 WHIP, which doesn't look like one of the best pitchers in the league to me. And the reason I find a lot wrong with him is because there is a lot wrong with him. LOL. Well I guess that settles that. Since you think there is a lot wrong with him, despite your admited bias against him, there must be something wrong with him. You say that he's not a great pitcher, because of the rough year he had in 2004, but then completely ignore the reasons why he became a good pitcher last year. It wasn't just luck. But whatever, keepin on hatin.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 12:13 PM) We can still make it to the playoffs/World Series without him. I believe BMac can do everything Contreras can do at the least, and trading Contreras also builds our team up for the future. Too bad that isn't what you said. You said we are in trouble if Contreras is leading us to the WS, which, after last year, is just flat out wrong.

QUOTE(Felix @ Jan 29, 2006 -> 11:58 AM) Might just be me, but I don't think that Contreras is the one thing that can lead us to the World Series this year, and if he is, we are in trouble. Yah. He did it last year. Must of used all of his "leading" up. We weren't in trouble last year when he led us from the All Star game on when we needed him the most. It's not like he was our #1 starter in the playoffs....

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 10:54 PM) Maybe they think Renteria could definitely get back to his NL numbers that he put up with St. Louis, and he would be better then any stopgap they could get. And he'll be making about 5 or 6M less a season then Furcal is IIRC. I'm sure that came into their mind. I'm sure they weighed that against the chance that Marte becomes a really good player, and they made their decision accordingly. They'll have to hope and pray Renteria gets back those NL numbers though. Because he obviously wasn't a player in 05 that you would give up a star to get. All of this is conjecture though. nobody knows. All I know is that the Indians got worse for 06, and considering thats the next season, thats fine by me.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) After losing Furcal to the Dodgers, the Braves needed a shortstop. Marte is a third baseman. Chipper Jones is still playing third base. Yah. And if he thought Marte could have been a definite star in the league, he would have gotten a stopgap. Obviously both Schuerholz and Epstein thought Marte was expendable for good, but not great players. There is a reason for that. Especially considering that Schuerholz has no probablem with letting young guys play.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 10:43 PM) http://www.baseball-reference.com/v/venturo01.shtml One of the best college hitters of all-time. Top 10 prospect in all of baseball. Oh and he went something like 0-40 to start his career. And? All I said was that I would have been more impressed if he came up and did something. He didn't. I said he'll still have a chance to be a solid player. I knew I shouldn't have brought up those ABs.

QUOTE(SSH2005 @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 10:42 PM) The shocking thing is that Thome was even worse in his second year in the majors. In 1992, Thome put up a .574 OPS in 117 AB's. I said those 50 ABs don't mean anything. I would just be more impressed if he came up and did something. When John Schuerholz gives up a player like that for somebody like Edgar Renteria, it makes me wonder a little bit.

QUOTE(Gene Honda Civic @ Jan 27, 2006 -> 10:39 PM) Possibly better for '06 too. You're completely underestimating Andy Marte. I laughed at him being called the top prospect in baseball, but there's no denying he's in the top 10 or so. He's easily better than Brian Anderson who will be our starting CFer, while Marte will be to the Indians what McCarthy is for us. That's to say, a player who is worked in over the course of the season to help fill the inevitable holes that spring up at some point during the season. If McCarthy is the best 6th starter in the league, Marte is the best 10th bat/fielder. Marte would have to be incredible to cover up for the offense, defense and pitching they lose. Everybody dumps on Riske, but he had a 3.10 ERA in 73 IP. I'm not convinced of that. And I am NOT saying BA is going to be great for us. Especially early. He is going to have a mid .200 average, K a hell of a lot, and hit a bunch of HR.