Rowand44

I really do love this trade. This was virtually what I've been asking for all offseason. I think everyone is going to miss Aaron though.

I love this trade from a baseball stand point...no doubt. Hopefully gio is staying but even if he's not while giving up some good prospects I just absolutely love that we now have a left handed power bat in the middle of the order. I've said before I'm going to go along with everything Kenny does this offseason, he's earned that imo. I'm going to miss you Aaron...thanks for everything. Welcome to Chicago Jim. On a sidenote... I assume everyone is going to mourn as my soxtalk name will have to be retired.

Nevermind, I somehow missed the thread right under this.

I just got home and I really don't want to go through this whole thread to see everything. Is there any prospects involved and how much cash are we getting? I'm so happy to have Thome and I love this deal but I'm going to miss Aaron there is no doubt. Thanks for everything Arow.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 03:13 PM) Why move Cotts from the pen? You don't. You're exactly right, Neal is to good and to valuable in the pen to even attempt to try and make him a starter at this point.

QUOTE(timotime @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:40 PM) i just plain dont like players who have at one time played for the cubs. i dont even pretend that my reasoning is rational, but there it is. LOL, is this serious?

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:28 PM) You are correct. That is the reason they are freeing up 3B. They want Cabrera over there. They supposedly have minor league OFers waiting to come up to take his place in RF. I can't remember names, but I know that is their plan. Jeremy Hermida will be in their of next year.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:15 PM) Again, I agree in theory but I don't believe KW will have a 4 mil dollar guy in the bullpen who can only be used with 2 innings notice. Plus, Hernandez wasn't too thrilled about the situation last year. He won't tolerate it for a full year. IMHO one will need to go. I don't think he minded it at all. He wasn't to happy when it sounded like he was going to be left off the playoff roster but he didnt care that he was in the pen. If any starter goes it will be him but I think there is a good chance he stays.

QUOTE(Soxman72 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:12 PM) I think B-Mac strats in AAA and waits for an injury. The amount of innings that out starters pitched indicate that the odds of an injury to one of them is great. I think that Hernandez has to start during the regular season. He has earned it and he is an above average fifth starter. He will get hurt at some point and B-Mac will be waiting Not happening. Bmac is the 5th starter, period.

QUOTE(ptatc @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 02:04 PM) This is good in theory but then we have 6 starters. Who isn't starting and what do you do with that person? Does B-Mac go to the minors? He is not suited for the bullpen, he needs two innings notice to warmup. Do you have Hernandez in the bullpen? He has the same issues as B-Mac plus thats over 4 million for a long reliever. I think one of the starting pitchers will go somewhere in a deal. The Duke will be in the pen this season if he doesn't get traded. The top 5 starters aren't going anywhere, I'll guarantee you that. El duque proved in the playoffs that he could be a very valuable reliever.

Jose and Brandon aren't going anywhere, I'm not even worried about that. The Phillies are going to be very limited with their trade partners and we'll have a better package to offer then the Indians because Aaron Rowand will be a part of our package. I don't think Cleveland will offer any top prospect or anyone of value on the major league roster. I think there's a good shot we land Thome for Aaron and Damaso. We'll see though.

QUOTE(YASNY @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 07:22 AM) No. I think it's likely he will be traded. I just don't think he'll go to Florida for Pierre. IMO Pierre could end up here and Aaron could be gone but I highly doubt you see them one for one, there would be much more to a deal.

Not sure if this has been mentioned yet, but BB remember the Pro is a big time pitchers park. Beckett had a 2.47 era at home last year and a 4.31 era on the road. Going to fenway plus the american league is going to give that era a pretty substantial jump.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 06:53 AM) All of this might be true if they had the White Sox offense of 2005. Instead, they'll still have the Red Sox offense, which makes this team unbelievable. Remember, they still won 95 games with their s***ty pitching this year. A healthy Schilling, a healthy Foukle and Beckett are worth at least 5 extra games in the standings, if not 10 games. I see the Yankees' first place reign in the AL East ending. Johnny Damon might be gone, don't forget how important he was to them. Now, I wasn't talking about the AL East, they can win that, though it's still very early in the offseason. IMO, they're still a one and out team in the playoffs, that pitching still won't get them anywhere in the playoffs.

QUOTE(BlackBetsy @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 06:38 AM) This trade is an absolute joke....two major league players for 3 Gammons-hyped Red Sox prospects. Who was the last hot Red Sox prospect? Whatever happened to that Freddy Sanchez guy? Gammons is on the payroll hyping these guys 24/7 and the Marlins swallow the bait hard. Hard not to see Boston winning 100 games next year with: Schilling-Beckett-Wells-Clement-Wakefield. Arroyo can be a long man. Plus, Lowell just had 1 down year. Plexiglass principle says he'll bounce back and go .270/.360/.490 with the Red Sox and play gold glove defense. Ugh. Your 2006 World Champion Red Sox. Woah, talk about an overreaction. Their rotation still isn't very good and their bullpen is still awful. Schilling isn't the same, he's done imo. Beckett while very solid when healthy has still never pitched 200 innings in his career, you can't just pencil him in for a whole year. Wells is average at best right now and will probably end up back on the Padres or some where on the west coast. Clement had an era of around 6 in the 2nd half last year and 21 in the alds . Wakefield is and probably will be again their most consistant starting pitcher. That team is far from a world series team imo.

Wowza. The Mets' pursuit of Billy Wagner may have paid off, as several sources are saying a deal could be announced as soon as tomorrow. Mets GM Omar Minaya has apparently offered a four-year, $40 million contract to Wagner, a deal that the Phillies are not expected to match.

QUOTE(DBAH0 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 06:09 AM) From today's Newark Stark Ledger; Very interesting. On a sidenote, get your ass on aim, I'm lonely.

QUOTE(Jeckle2000 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:43 AM) Some of you need to be beat over the head with the reality stick... Most of you want to get rid of Rowand... (because he sucks :banghead ) Keep Crede (because he's the greatest third basemen ever) and start Brian Anderson (who is a baseball God and can't hit less then .300 if he tried) It's more likely... We trade Rowand... he goes on to win a gold glove (especially if he's a Yankme)... Crede hits .250 next year if he's lucky... and Anderson somewhere in the .230-.240 range... You can have my soxtalk name if you really want it.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 01:00 AM) You can't build Championship teams with your heart. Kenny Williams knows that. Bill Mueller will be contacted. If you're implying that I want to keep Joe cause I like him well your off base, not sure if you're saying that or not though. I could care less what players are on this team as long as they're winners and for the most part good guys or what not. I personally would rather have Joe at 3rd and if Joe's back is healthy I'm sure kenny would too.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:54 AM) Credes problem is he is too streaky of a hitter. Thank god that he had a hot streak when he did. Talk about great timing. When he is hot, he looks great. But that is for a week or so. Then of course when he forgets it and gets lost, then he looks terrible. If Joe was more consistant I would have no problems. But his lows are so bad he looks as if he he close his eyes an make better contact. You're right, he's always been a streaky hitter, however he was pretty much awesome for 2 straight months to finish off the season which is really he hasn't done all that much. As much as I like Mueller I'd rather have Joe's glove and power as a starting 3rd baseman.

QUOTE(redandwhite @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:51 AM) Bill Mueller is not a second baseman. Is he a butcher there?

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:48 AM) Check their stats, clap clap clap. Bill Mueller .786 ZR, RF 2.62, .972 FP vs Joe Crede ..799 ZR, RF 2.72, .971 FP Bill is not a butcher at 3rd, Joe maybe better. But for the more consistant offense, and left handed stick. Its not like we are putting Ross Gload over at 3rd with a right handed glove. Never said he was a butcher at 3rd but Joe is significantly better. Add that to the fact that Joe has more power and might have found his swing in the playoffs...I'll take me chances with Crede. I'm a big Mueller fan too.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:31 AM) Bill Mueller who hit .295 and has an OBP of .369 would be a backup to Joe Crede who hit .252 with an OBP of .303??? Some people need to put down the Rally Crede pipe a few times. De Fense Clap Clap.

QUOTE(CWSGuy406 @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:22 AM) Mueller would be nice to have as a guy to spell Crede and Iguchi -- he did play 2B not so recently, correct? Or is that just Bellhorn? If he did play 2B -- and came for $3-4 million, I wouldn't mind it. Ozzie plays his backups enough to the point where we should have a solid bench. I think he'd get enough starts for it to be worth it. Of course -- I'm not sure that he can play 2B, and I doubt he'd come so cheap. He played 5 games at 2nd last year.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Nov 22, 2005 -> 12:15 AM) I love Mueller...but not as a backup, and I'd rather have Crede starting over Mueller. I also don't think you can trade the playoff hero unless there were to be some sort of problem elsewhere with him...like for instance, contractual negotiations...and even then, I'm not sure you can. I wouldn't be a huge fan of signing Mueller...I'll say that at the very least. If the Sox do sign Mueller it's cause of Joe's back. There have been talks that upper management was worried about his back and that's why Mueller has come up.