Rex Hudler

no you need not... however i was not aware that home field and history were a factor in all-star voting.... off the record, i would like to see frank play in this game... on the record, he is not having an all-star caliber year Who in your mind deserves to be named ahead of him that is not currently on one of the rosters? Do you think Carl Everett deserved a spot? And why, of course.... i have not seen who is on the all-star AL team yet.... but to me, and i will point out that i am a homer, frank does not have all-star creds this year If he doesn't belong then who does? It's a simple question. I'll even help you get started.. Frank Thomas AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SH SF HP AVG SLG% OBP% -- - - -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- ---- ---- TOTAL 272 44 78 160 22 0 20 47 61 59 0 0 0 2 8 .287 .588 .429 Carl Everett AB R H TB 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS SH SF HP AVG SLG% OBP% -- - - -- -- -- -- --- -- -- -- -- -- -- -- --- ---- ---- TOTAL 282 54 76 150 14 3 18 51 33 50 5 2 4 3 5 .270 .532 .353

I don't have any real reason for using this icon, but I never have, so here it is for the hell of it.

Barons Team Sets Now Available Don't know how many of you are into cards or care, but I thought I would pass it along to those who might be. I really like their set this year.

Post often, but try to have something to say. Posting for the sake of posting is annoying to most on here.

no you need not... however i was not aware that home field and history were a factor in all-star voting.... off the record, i would like to see frank play in this game... on the record, he is not having an all-star caliber year Who in your mind deserves to be named ahead of him that is not currently on one of the rosters? Do you think Carl Everett deserved a spot? And why, of course....

Jeremy Reed was named Southern League Hitter of the Week last week. Tetsu Yofu was names Southern League Pitcher of the week last week.

He definitely deserves a shot at AAA. I don't see him being dominant in the Majors, but he has a chance to pitch there. I am not sure whether he would be better as a 4th or 5th starter or as a reliever. He has done both, not only here, but professionally in Taiwann and Japan as well. He is older, so his window of opportunity is smaller than most prospects.

Nah, not worth it.... I know I am right, that is all that matters.

Maybe I am missing something here, but those look like damn good numbers. Did you forget to slap some green on those, or were you being totally serious? I was really hoping the words were so obviously wrong that green was not necessary.

He only had one HR tonight. I see Borchard settling in as a corner OF (if he gets his s*** straight). I just don't see him as a long term answer in CF. I also think he will require more patience than anyone outside the Sox org. wants to give him.

That made no sense at all.

So they can't start 8 games under .500 but they can end 8 games under and that is okay?

Foulke has 4 blown saves now this year. ALL four are in Tim Hudson starts. OUCH

You forgot the logical reasoning with your qualification.

I think Frank definitely should have gotten a spot over Carl Everett. I would like to know who the players picked and who the managers picked. Have they released that info??

That is almost as ridiculous as the original statement we were arguing about. MB has won 19 and barely missed getting his 20th. Don't try to tell me that because he missed winning that last game that he cannot be considered great. I was all ready to give you your due until you backed up your opinion with that? If you guys are going to share your opinion, either state it and leave it the hell alone, or back it up with something that has merit. See the big picture sometimes. See past the numbers. It won't hurt you, I promise. I am not going to get into another one with you cluj, or continue this with Bmr. I don't have a problem at all with you thinking Mark B is not a great pitcher. That is an opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. The word "great" can mean different things to different people, so I have no problem with varying opinions. Bmr, I apologize for calling you stupid. I should have stuck to calling your point stupid. LOL Kind of like saying to an umpire "that call sucked" rather than saying "you suck". Lastly, Phil Niekro may not have been the most dominating pitcher of his time but the man is a Hall of Famer. Perhaps your definition of great is different than mine, but in my mind if a guy is good enough to get to The Hall, I am going to call him great without thinking twice. Winning 20 1 time means nothing. Well, it doesn't mean NOTHING, but it doesn't mean much. There've been more than a handful of pitchers who have won 20, and they certainly were not great pitchers (see Jose Lima). Perhaps I wasn't clear enough -- but a pitcher has to win 20 on a somewhat regular basis in order to be considered great. Obviously, there are other things that a pitcher can do to be considered great (like, if a pitcher pitches for the Devil Rays his whole career and had an ERA of 2.00), but winning 20 is a big component of that. I'll give you that. A solid qualifiable answer. That's all I ask.

Only one hit for Bristol, a 2-run HR by Collaro BRISTOL 2 AT ELIZABETHTON 7 YTD YTD BRISTOL AB R H BI AVG ELIZABETHTON AB R H BI AVG R.Valido SS 4 0 0 0 .321 R.Spataro CF 5 1 2 0 .314 F.Lebron 2B 4 0 0 0 .258 F.Molina 3B 5 2 4 1 .347 C.Young CF 2 1 0 0 .375 K.Phillips CAT 4 1 1 3 .408 T.Collaro LF 3 1 1 2 .300 D.Gomon 1B 4 0 1 0 .298 M.Herring DH 3 0 0 0 .268 J.Sims RF 3 1 1 1 .222 M.Perez 1B 3 0 0 0 .288 B.Peterson DH 3 1 1 0 .167 E.Young RF 3 0 0 0 .233 R.Perodin LF 3 0 0 0 .206 M.Lenderman CAT 3 0 0 0 .133 A.Fermin 2B 3 1 1 1 .176 J.Schmidt 3B 3 0 0 0 .083 S.Taylor SS 4 0 1 0 .294 F.DeAza PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 D.Medina PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 J.Huchingson PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 E.Brandon PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 D.Banks PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 E.Meek PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 TOTALS 28 2 1 2 TOTALS 34 7 12 6 BRISTOL 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0- 2 1 2 ELIZABETHTON 0 0 0 0 1 2 1 3 X- 7 12 0 E--J.Schmidt 2. DP--BRISTOL 1, ELIZABETHTON 0. LOB--BRISTOL 0, ELIZABETHTON 9. 2B--F.Molina (7). HR--T.Collaro (6), K.Phillips (2). SB--A.Fermin (1). SF--K.Phillips, A.Fermin. YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA BRISTOL F.DeAza 5.0 6 1 1 1 1 0 2.84 J.Huchingson (L,0-1) 1.0 1 2 1 2 0 0 12.00 D.Banks 2.0 5 4 4 1 2 1 7.04 ELIZABETHTON D.Medina 5.0 1 2 2 1 7 1 7.31 E.Brandon (W,1-0) 2.0 0 0 0 0 0 0 3.60 E.Meek (S,1) 2.0 0 0 0 0 2 0 1.00 WP--J.Huchingson. SO--R.Valido, F.Lebron, T.Collaro, M.Herring, E.Young 3, M.Lenderman 2, D.Gomon 2, B.Peterson. BB--C.Young, D.Gomon, J.Sims, B.Peterson, R.Perodin. T--2:30. A--552

Great Falls keeps winning... Gray, Nanita and Anderson keep hitting and walking...... PROVO 1 AT GREAT FALLS 3 YTD YTD PROVO AB R H BI AVG GREAT FALLS AB R H BI AVG R.Willits CF 5 0 1 0 .232 A.Gray 3B 3 1 2 0 .351 A.Peel DH 5 0 1 0 .333 R.Nanita RF 3 1 1 0 .441 A.Pavkovich SS 3 0 1 0 .329 B.Anderson CF 3 1 1 1 .436 M.Brown 3B 3 0 0 0 .273 B.Bounds DH 4 0 0 0 .394 W.Madrigal RF 4 0 1 0 .274 C.Lisk CAT 4 0 1 2 .333 B.Balkcom LF 4 0 0 0 .227 C.King LF 4 0 1 0 .232 T.Duenas CAT 4 1 2 0 .279 C.Kelly 1B 3 0 0 0 .200 M.Pali 1B 3 0 1 1 .162 C.Haggerty 2B 3 0 0 0 .293 C.Hauseman PH 1 0 0 0 .185 M.Myers SS 3 0 0 0 .260 R.Kenning 1B 0 0 0 0 .214 B.Logan PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 H.Kendrick 2B 4 0 1 0 .140 M.Moat PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 V.Sterzbach PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 T.Jacquez PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 W.Hedden PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 F.Hernandez PIT 0 0 0 0 .000 TOTALS 36 1 8 1 TOTALS 30 3 6 3 PROVO 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0- 1 8 3 GREAT FALLS 0 0 2 1 0 0 0 0 X- 3 6 2 E--A.Pavkovich, M.Brown, M.Pali, A.Gray, C.King. DP--PROVO 1, GREAT FALLS 1. LOB--PROVO 13, GREAT FALLS 8. 2B--A.Pavkovich (5), M.Pali (3), C.Lisk (1). CS--R.Nanita. HBP--A.Pavkovich, C.Kelly, C.Haggerty. YTD IP H R ER BB SO HR ERA PROVO V.Sterzbach (L,0-1) 4.0 4 3 1 3 3 0 3.50 W.Hedden 4.0 2 0 0 0 0 0 2.40 GREAT FALLS B.Logan (W,2-0) 5.0 4 1 0 4 2 0 2.50 M.Moat 2.0 3 0 0 0 0 0 4.91 T.Jacquez 1.0 0 0 0 0 2 0 2.45 F.Hernandez (S,4) 1.0 1 0 0 0 0 0 1.42 HB--W.Hedden 2, M.Moat. WP--B.Logan. SO--R.Willits, A.Peel, M.Pali, H.Kendrick, C.Lisk, C.King, C.Haggerty. BB--A.Pavkovich, M.Brown 2, W.Madrigal, A.Gray, R.Nanita, B.Anderson. T--2:25. A--3685

Kanny wins 3-2. Can't find box.

Winston-Salem game suspened due to rain in the 4th. To be resumed tomorrow before the regular game.

Birmingham gets pounded..... Wylie has problem with blister..... Reed with two more hits and a walk.. Shaffer with a double and RBI and a walk (gotta give him credit when it is due), but had another error... Reyes has been hot at the plate JACKSONVILLE (11) AT BIRMINGHAM (5) JACKSONVILLE AB R H BI BIRMINGHAM AB R H BI S Victorino CF 5 1 1 0 D Sandoval 2B 2 1 1 0 J Repko LF 3 1 0 0 S Morales C 2 0 0 0 V Diaz 2B 2 2 0 1 J Hamilton LF 5 2 2 0 N Alvarez DH 4 3 1 1 J Reed RF 4 0 2 0 D Michaelis 1B 5 1 2 2 G Alvarez 1B 5 1 2 0 B King 3B 5 1 2 2 C Maldonado C 5 0 1 2 R Abercrombie RF 5 1 3 2 J Piniella DH 4 0 1 1 B Waszgis C 4 0 0 1 G Reyes SS 4 1 2 0 M Collins SS 3 1 2 1 J Shaffer 2B 3 0 1 1 C Durham CF 4 0 0 0 TOTALS 36 11 11 10 TOTALS 38 5 12 4 JACKSONVILLE 100 611 020 -- 11 BIRMINGHAM 202 000 010 -- 5 E--G Reyes, J Shaffer, B King. DP--JACKSONVILLE 2, BIRMINGHAM 1. LOB--JACKSONVILLE 10, BIRMINGHAM 9. 2B--J Hamilton, J Shaffer, M Collins, N Alvarez, D Michaelis. 3B--S Victorino. SB--J Repko 1 (11). CS--M Collins. S--J Repko. SF--V Diaz. IP H R ER BB SO HR JACKSONVILLE J Hanrahan (W,9-3) 6 9 4 3 2 8 0 L Urdaneta 2 3 1 1 1 0 0 J Frasor 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 BIRMINGHAM M Wylie 1 2-3 1 1 1 0 1 0 K McWhirter (L,1-3) 1 2-3 3 6 5 3 0 0 M Smith 2-3 1 0 0 1 0 0 J Bullard 1 4 2 2 1 0 0 J Bajenaru 2 1-3 0 2 0 4 4 0 B An 2-3 2 0 0 1 0 0 R Purvis 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 WP--M Smith. BALK--K McWhirter. SO--JAC: B Waszgis, B King, S Victorino, D Michaelis, J Repko. BIR: J Shaffer 2, C Durham 2, J Hamilton, S Morales, G Alvarez, D Sandoval. BB--JAC: V Diaz 3, M Collins 2, J Repko 2, B Waszgis, S Victorino, N Alvarez. BIR: J Shaffer, S Morales, J Reed. T--3:12. A--2,087.

Charlotte wins big... Borchard with two knocks incl. a HR.... Nice start by Porzio..... Miles has been taking some walks lately...... Hankins and Riviera keep raking BUFFALO (2) AT CHARLOTTE (11) BUFFALO AB R H BI CHARLOTTE AB R H BI M Izturis SS 3 0 0 0 A Miles 2B 3 1 1 1 A Santos 2B 3 1 0 0 T Hummel SS 3 0 0 1 A Escobar CF 3 0 0 0 R Gload 1B 5 1 2 1 T Hafner 1B 4 1 1 2 J Borchard CF 5 1 2 2 J Bard DH 4 0 2 0 J Burke DH 3 2 0 0 L Garcia LF 4 0 0 0 M Rivera C 4 2 2 2 D Wathan C 4 0 1 0 R Hankins 3B 3 2 3 1 N Grindell RF 3 0 1 0 A Sanders LF 3 0 0 0 R Secrist 3B 2 0 0 0 S Morgan RF 3 2 2 2 TOTALS 30 2 5 2 TOTALS 32 11 12 10 BUFFALO 000 200 000 -- 2 CHARLOTTE 001 200 17x -- 11 E--A Santos. DP--CHARLOTTE 1. LOB--BUFFALO 5, CHARLOTTE 5. 2B--J Bard, N Grindell, S Morgan, R Gload. HR--T Hafner 1 (2) (off M Porzio), M Rivera 1 (5) (off R Rodriguez), S Morgan 1 (6) (off R Rodriguez), J Borchard 1 (6) (off A Myette). CS--R Hankins. S--M Izturis, S Morgan. SF--A Miles, T Hummel. IP H R ER BB SO HR BUFFALO R Rodriguez (L,0-1) 4 4 3 3 1 5 2 L Caraccioli 3 1 1 1 2 3 0 A Myette 1 7 7 7 1 1 1 CHARLOTTE M Porzio (W,7-4) 6 2 2 2 1 5 1 G Majewski 1 2-3 2 0 0 2 3 0 M Ginter (S,8) 1 1-3 1 0 0 0 1 0 HBP--R Hankins by R Rodriguez. BALK--L Caraccioli. SO--BUF: A Santos 3, A Escobar 2, D Wathan, L Garcia, M Izturis, T Hafner. CHA: A Sanders 3, T Hummel 2, S Morgan, J Burke, J Borchard, A Miles. BB--BUF: A Escobar, R Secrist, A Santos. CHA: J Burke, A Miles, T Hummel, A Sanders. T--2:33. A--2,176.

I don't have a problem with that rule because they just expanded the rosters from 30 to 32. Before, I agreed with you, but I think the extra two players make it livable.

Ahhhh common sense!! Heh, sorry I wasn't here while this thread was evolving. But reading it in its entirety does have its advantages. The words "great" and "legend" get tossed around so much nowadays that we as fans have really become jaded to their meanings. To me, someone who is "great" is among the best that EVER PLAYED. Hell, whether MB is in the top 10 of pitchers in MLB right now is very questionable to say the least. He may just be in the top 20 if you actually went through and ranked every starting pitcher. But when you expand the pool of pitchers to EVERY PITCHER WHO EVER PLAYED, MB wouldn't even be on the radar screen. He may be with time, but to say that he's "great" in his 3rd full season is just silly. I suppose it's a matter of opinion even with the way "great" is defined, but like Bmr said, opinions such as these cannot be wrong. They're merely opinions. Whether Mark was great or not was not the argument. The argument was based on the statement that Mark Buehrle could not be great because he started 2-10. There is a big difference.

That is almost as ridiculous as the original statement we were arguing about. MB has won 19 and barely missed getting his 20th. Don't try to tell me that because he missed winning that last game that he cannot be considered great. I was all ready to give you your due until you backed up your opinion with that? If you guys are going to share your opinion, either state it and leave it the hell alone, or back it up with something that has merit. See the big picture sometimes. See past the numbers. It won't hurt you, I promise. I am not going to get into another one with you cluj, or continue this with Bmr. I don't have a problem at all with you thinking Mark B is not a great pitcher. That is an opinion and you are certainly entitled to it. The word "great" can mean different things to different people, so I have no problem with varying opinions. Bmr, I apologize for calling you stupid. I should have stuck to calling your point stupid. LOL Kind of like saying to an umpire "that call sucked" rather than saying "you suck". Lastly, Phil Niekro may not have been the most dominating pitcher of his time but the man is a Hall of Famer. Perhaps your definition of great is different than mine, but in my mind if a guy is good enough to get to The Hall, I am going to call him great without thinking twice.