rangercal

QUOTE(WHarris1 @ Aug 18, 2006 -> 01:27 AM) We lost to the Royals and our chances of winning the Wild Card improved 20% last night. I agree

QUOTE(knightni @ Aug 17, 2006 -> 11:11 PM) Yup, I can see Uribe getting moved for a speedier SS too. OMGWTFBBQFFFFFF me 3!

f*** science!

seems like an 18 hour period to me.

QUOTE(chitownsportsfan @ Aug 15, 2006 -> 01:43 AM) People wonder why Billy Beane is the best GM in the game, well with a payroll of peanuts, he once again has the A's in 1st place. A huge part of that is a mostly healthy big Frank, he has put up on OPS of .911 will slugging 25 HR's and getting on base at a .382 clip. The Big Hurt's base salary this year? $500,000. Frank is now only 27 homers away from 500 and will likely end the season around 20 short of 500. Does he have enough left in him to get the number? My guess is yes, one more half season of health should give him around 495 and a role as a spot starter pinch hitter in 2008 should put him over the top. That's a conservative estimate, but it still gets him the 500 and the automatic keys to Cooperstown, should he be willing to put in two more years of work. Frank remains the greatest slugger of the 90's without a hint of steroids standing between him and the record books. This "best gm in the game" you speak of also signed Loiaza to that massive contract. Yes, this is after the white sox did not want him anymore nor the Yankees. He put a 3.77 era last year in the NL puitching in a pitchers park, so let's give him 6 million a year.

I wonder If Cardinal fans would say Torre is overrated. Cardinal W-L records since 91 (Torres first year with the cards) Year League Record Finish Manager 2005 NL Cent 100-62 (.617) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 2004 NL Cent 105-57 (.648) NL 1 Tony LaRussa 2003 NL Cent 85-77 (.525) 3 Tony LaRussa 2002 NL Cent 97-65 (.599) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 2001 NL Cent 93-69 (.574) WC 2 Tony LaRussa 2000 NL Cent 95-67 (.586) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 1999 NL Cent 75-86 (.466) 4 Tony LaRussa 1998 NL Cent 83-79 (.512) 3 Tony LaRussa 1997 NL Cent 73-89 (.451) 4 Tony LaRussa 1996 NL Cent 88-74 (.543) DIV 1 Tony LaRussa 1995 NL Cent 62-81 (.434) 4 Joe Torre and Mike Jorgensen 1994 NL Cent 53-61 (.465) 3 Joe Torre 1993 NL East 87-75 (.537) 3 Joe Torre 1992 NL East 83-79 (.512) 3 Joe Torre 1991 NL East 84-78 (.519) 2 Joe Torre

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 14, 2006 -> 12:43 AM) What's so hard to understand about Beane working wonders with a limited payroll, while Joe Torre has gotten the Yankees to the playoffs 11 straight years, with a very good shot at 12 this year, albeit with a huge payroll he has absolutely no control over? Joe Torre doesn't control the Yankee payroll, nor does he control which players are brought in at what price. He undoubtedly has a very large say in who or what they bring in, but that's about it. The fact of the matter is he's taken the Yankees to the playoffs every year for a over decade, and only one other manager since mass expansion has done that. I don't care how much money you spend, if you are the manager of a team with as many egos and old pitchers as the Yankees, and you take your team to the playoffs 12 straight years, you are damn good, and I don't think he gets nearly the credit he deserves. On the flip side, Beane doesn't control how large his payroll is, but he DOES, by and large, control how it is spent. Since like friggin everyone read or knows about Moneyball, people know Beane's "strategy" on the game...yet he keeps on winning and building talent. He gets anywhere from $45-55 million to spend on his team, but only about one other team in the majors has sustained any level of success with such small payroll, and Oakland's been better than Minnesota longer...Oakland's won 87 games or more in 7 straight seasons, whereas Minnesota was a 90-win team for 3 straight years, and on the ends of that streak were mid-80s win totals. So, yes, I can dismiss the payroll for Torre but bring it up for Beane and say that they are both underrated. dismissing it would be the ignorant thing to do especially after you look at his pre-NYY WL records Year League Team Age G W L WP Finish +----+-----------+--------+---+-----+----+----+------+------+ 1977 NL East NewYorkM 36 117 49 68 .419 6 Player/Manager 1978 NL East NewYorkM 37 162 66 96 .407 6 1979 NL East NewYorkM 38 163 63 99 .389 6 1980 NL East NewYorkM 39 162 67 95 .414 5 1981 NL East NewYorkM 40 52 17 34 .333 5 First half of season 1981 NL East NewYorkM 40 53 24 28 .462 4 Second half of season 1982 NL West Atlanta 41 162 89 73 .549 1 1983 NL West Atlanta 42 162 88 74 .543 2 1984 NL West Atlanta 43 162 80 82 .494 3 1990 NL East St.Louis 49 58 24 34 .414 6 1991 NL East St.Louis 50 162 84 78 .519 2 1992 NL East St.Louis 51 162 83 79 .512 3 1993 NL East St.Louis 52 162 87 75 .537 3 1994 NL Cent St.Louis 53 115 53 61 .465 3 1995 NL Cent St.Louis 54 47 20 27 .426 4 come on now. You praise Beane for working with a low payroll. But don't look at Joe Torre's HIGH payroll as a reason why he MAY be so successful? How can Torre be considered underrated when A) There are lots of people who claim him to be the best manager in the game B) ESPN C) His pre Yankee Days D) YES his 200 million dollar payroll that he has to manage on the field. Must be hard to make a lineup when you have Johnny Damon 2 time allstar Derek Jeter 7 time all star (yes he is still overrated) Arod 9 time all star , 2 time MVP Jason Giambi 5 time allstar 2000 mvp Gary Sheffield 9 time all star Jorge Posada 4 time All star Hideki matsuii 2 time allstar in 3 seasons Robinson Cano Phenom who just added an allstar berth under his belt. If you lose a guy like matsuii and Sheffield, you just take on a contract like Abreu and keep on rollin. Managers like Yost, Gardenhire and 95 % of the league don't have that luxury every year. He has never had to deal with a closer situation in a decade thanks to having the best closer in the history of the game. (payroll has to do with that, because most teams would have lost him to Free agency. Not the yankees.) All managers have to deal with the hard times in between closers. Ozzie had to with Koch and Shingo in his first 2 years! . Thats more than Torre Had to deal with Ever in pin stripes! Look at Baker with the dempster-Hawkins options he had over there. What would Torre have done to deal with those sitiuations in a better way than any other manager? He probably would be forced to deal with the situations the same way. Work with what you have. Then get f***ed in the ass when your pitcher blows a save. I'd like you to name 10 managers in baseball who would not have had the same success with the same team Torre has had over the last 5 years.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Aug 13, 2006 -> 02:13 PM) Underrated... Manager: Joe Torre. I don't know understand how people can say he's overrated at all. For 12 straight years(assuming they make it this year), the Yankees will have been in the playoffs. I don't care that the Yankees have a $200 million payroll...Torre doesn't control that at all. I don't care that they have talent up the arse...he doesn't control that either. However, the man's job almost never seems to be safe, as rumors fly about his job security. He also has more egos in his clubhouse than a celebrity golf tournament, yet he keeps everyone in check and keeps everyone happy and producing. He can keep his team playing well through injuries and through the media storm that is New York. He seems to know when to take a pitcher out, when to leave him in, who to call in from the bullpen, who to have pinch hit, when to steal, and when to let Mo get a 2 inning save. In my mind, he's the best manager in the AL, and top 2 in the majors(no idea who I'd say is better between he and Cox). GM: Billy Beane. Big time supporter, obviously, but I don't understand why people think he's overrated. He isn't the god the media sometimes makes him out to be, but he is a top 3-5 GM int he game. Hell, a book was written about him and his philosophy on how to build a team, everyone read it, and yet he is still always one step ahead of the entire baseball world, and has his team loaded with talent and competing with a $45 million payroll(or so). That's just awesome. Don't see how you can use the payroll argument in defense to how good Beane is for lacking one. But dismiss it when saying how good Torre is. Try again.

This race is far from over.

one year ago today the sox started a seven game losing streak. One year later, Detroit is on it's first 3 game losing streak in over 2 months. Lets get that streak to 4!

I hated the Adkins deal. I remember he was interviewd on the score afterwards. Mike North I think it was, was asking him very tough questions. Like, are you shocked how lopsided this deal was? I thought we could ge a LOT more for Durham.

Just curiosity. But would it have been likely that Liriano would have been MORE available than Felix Diaz at the time ? I'm Not bashing Kenny. Just curiosity how Diaz and Liriano compared back then as prospects.

He has 3 Hr's since July 16th. After having 10 each in April and May and 8 in July ( 6 of those being in the first 2 weeks. ) He has leveled off of late . I think he may be trying to beat those shifts and not pulling as much. He improved so much at hitting opposite field since April. Maybe saving his last wind for October. What does everyone else think? Maybe a Sore back? Maybe that is having him push singles and doubles instead of going for solo bombs.

This can make for a great debate. Overrated Player: Derek Jeter -Yankees Manager: Joe Torre - Yankees GM: Brian Cashman-Yankees Im not saying they are below average at what they do, I just feel they are MOST overrated in baseball. Underrated Player: Miguel Cabrera -Marlins Manager: Ron Gardenhire -Twins GM: Terry Ryan -Twins

QUOTE(nitetrain8601 @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 08:02 PM) What are you talking about? ^

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Aug 9, 2006 -> 10:23 AM) i dont give a darn about baseball business. at this point, JD has earned it, and to hell with what business says, reward him for what he has done and lock him up for a few more years. would you extend him to that type of deal if he played for your carolina knights?

QUOTE(DABearSoX @ Aug 8, 2006 -> 12:08 AM) How about Joey Cora, or maybe Hawk could run the team..... you have to realize, band wagoners won't tolerate losing or a team that is only 20 games over.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:53 PM) Most Everyone thought he was done, including me and I'm as big a Frank Thomas fan as you will find. Definition of "done": 2002 type numbers only with fewer ABs. Who would have put money down before the season started that Frank could do what he's currently doing? Not even Ken Harrelson would take that bet. It's just insane how great he's been over the past 2.5 months and the topper is that the Standing O that he got from the Sox fans appears to have started the whole damned thing. Call me a liar. Call me a homer. But I knew he could. The man is a freak of nature when healthy. There are a few factors that led me to belive he would come back strong. 1) I firmly belived he came back too early last year to help the team. On one leg he hit 12 hr's last year. Imagine what he could do when he can plant his feet . That gives him balance, balance is very important for big guys. 2) He may be getting old, but he will have his batting eye for years. That is one thing you don't lose as fast as other tools. 3) The guy is still in amazing shape. He has not relied on steroids to keep himself in that way. 4) He has played 108 out of 324 possible games the last 2 years. Games and practice that would have been grueling on a player in his mid 30's gave him a chance to not put so much strain on his body. 5) Frank Thomas was put into the same sentence as players like Ruth and Williams when I was younger. He is the only first basemen besides Jimmie Fox (32 & 33) to win Back to Back Mvps. He could easily have had 4-5 if he were a media darling like griffey or ripken. Frank Thomas may be the only sox player in your lifetime that was a legitimite contender for triple crown. This is a man who is 6'5 257 lbs and won a batting title. A career .425 obp and .991 OPS is nothing to laugh at. You have a guy who is 8 years older than some of the stars in the game and is still putting better power numbers up (i.e guerrero) My point is. Big Frank is a special player. That is what gets you in the HOF. You just dont give up on players like that.

QUOTE(Harry&JimmyRocked @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 11:04 PM) false hope leads to disappointment thats the life of a sports fan. I enjoyed my "false hope" after our 7 game losing streak last year. funny. a majority of the whiners registered AFTER the 2005 glory season. Im not saing they are BW's , but Im just saying.

QUOTE(Wealz @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:46 PM) .568 and a World Series speaks for itself. I am sure he will also win another one. But it will be despite him.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:33 PM) Frank Thomas' line since May 22nd: 53 G | 175 AB | 17 HR (10.21 AB/HR) | 47 RBI | .314/.433/.629/1.061 (f***ING GAUDY) But most of the experts on this board said he was DONE. Kalapse, I just don't understand.

QUOTE(Wealz @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 10:37 PM) What's Guillen's career winning percentage as manager? What ever it is. It is despite Ozzie .

QUOTE(SoxHawk1980 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 08:54 PM) Feel free to add this too: The Sox are done, finished, finito. The starting pitchers can't pitch, period and Ozzie has shown himself to be a horrible manager. He can't handle a pitching staff to save his life. With starting pitchers like this and a horrible manager like Ozzie, this team has ZERO chance of making it to the postseason. - August 7, 2006 don't flatter yourself newbie

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ Aug 7, 2006 -> 08:30 PM) Hopefully Ozzie will learn when to recognize fatigue in a starting pitcher. until he learns that, we will never see a World Series in chicago.

another name added to my sig