RockRaines

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 12:03 PM) They can get the same package in the off-season as they will now most likely. I don't think he is moved untilt he off-season. I disagree, I think teams are more desperate in the middle of the season.

riot, no question.

Quick, one of the main reasons that the Cards are better this year, is because they tried to get scrappier by adding a scrappy middle IF.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:59 AM) i would take the Cardinal team over the Whitesox team right now, including there manager. Talent always beats out scrappiness. Tell that to the Marlins, Angels, Diamondbacks etc etc etc

QUOTE(qwerty @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:56 AM) Chances of him being dealt this season are probally closer to 0% unless they get a crazy offer they cannot refuse. They honestly have no reason to be moving him now when they can get the same value at the end of the season or early on into next season. Except for the fact that they have no room for him after this season. Is has been widely known that they are going to have to deal him, and midseason is when you can get alot of value, and ALOT of good prospects. They need some pitching prospects, and they could get some great ones.

QUOTE(quickman @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:52 AM) First I am not reacting to one series. i have been pretty consistant on my feelings about this. Furthermore, the Cardinals were and are still currently a great team. Last years Cardinals were better than this years Whitesox. And we all know they went to the World series. This years Cardinals are better than this years Whitesox as it stands today. The record may not say so, but they are In my opinion. We are all entitled to our opinions and mine is get better players. The NL is weak like the Ukraine, and the NL central is one of the weakest divisions in baseball.

QUOTE(3E8 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:12 AM) El Duque hasn't pitched that great in recent playoff appearances is this correct? He has a better postseason record than Kenny Rogers.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:43 AM) Excuse me? Do you need to attack me...Saying I am a spammer who adds nothing to this board? I think many will disagree with you. Do you have problems with people disagreeing with you? Very hostile. :headshake Forget it. I don't come onto this board to be insulted. Like saying that someone's posts are credible only in video game world? Come on, nobody is that sensitive. Back to the topic at hand. I dont see KW making a huge trade of any means, but I DO think that Kong should not be resigned, and I DO think Huff could be a viable option. This is one of the many major issues at hand in the offseason, whether to re-sign a player that doesnt really fit the mold of the team, because he has been a cornerstone for several years.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:44 AM) The splits that I gave a hyperlink to were the past 3 years. The post-season numbers are here http://www.baseball-reference.com/r/rogerke01.shtml about halfway down the page Word, I still think El Duque would be more effective down the stretch.

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 11:03 AM) So do you want him knowing that he will have to serve a 20 game suspension? Dont you think he might be needed for those 3 or 4 starts he will miss due to this suspension? Wouldnt that put the Sox in a bind? Come on, think through this. Rogers is not the answer to any question you ask. Who could help the Sox in the Second Half? Who could help the Sox down the stretch? Who could help the Sox in the ALDS? Who could help the Sox in the ALCS? Who could help the Sox in the World Series? He isnt a money player. The answer to all of your questions is: El Duque would be better.

Im not sure I see KW going after any of these players. We are all talking about trading for old, past their prime players. Havent we done trades like that the past 3 years with no help??

QUOTE(kyyle23 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:40 AM) This was my email that was read: DO you have any years to go with those numbers, because he has just really started to get dominant in the last several years.

QUOTE(UofIChiSox @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:09 AM) Also, after what's happened with Rogers, I would think he'd be more careful now than ever because of all of the negative pub he's gotten. Kind of like Big Frank, AJ, Ozzie, Mark B, and their negative publicity?

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:34 AM) Vazquez isnt an ace and the rumors b4 was we trade Garland and Konerko and get Vazquez... back when the diamondbacks still had RJ b4 trading him.... B-Mac is what Garland was then but younger. BMAC is 21 with little to no major league experience, Jon had already been in the show for many years and was a proven .500 starter. And yes, Vaz is THEIR ace.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:31 AM) EL Duque would be the long reliever and a course I think he would be restriced from pitching back to back days. Yes, but we are giving up three or more relievers and only getting Eddie, and possibly El Duque, which I am against since he is our best playoff starter. Then you fill in Jenks, who hasnt proven s*** at the major league level yet. Our bullpen gets weaker.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 10:27 AM) For those of you all saying Griffey cant play defense this year, have you guys actually watched him at all more than once or twice if at all? His defense is still good and he also still makes those diving catches.... Rowand might be a little bit better but its not a real drop off. Ok but anyways since getting Griffey is a pipe dream anyways ill continue the dream and tell you what we do. Griffey with his contract wont cost 2 much so give up an average prospect or whatevr it takes. Than trade Konerko and B-Mac9or who ever) to Arizona for Javier Vazquez. Wow, Griffey makes diving catches, so did Magglio, was he good, nope. JR is not a good defender anymore, get over it. His contract would cost alot, and the reds would want more than an Average prospect for their starting Cf'er. Second, do you really think all it would take for a team to give up its Ace would be BMAC OR Konerko? I would certainly hope that if someone wanted OUR Ace, that we would hold out for more than that. Dont forget that fair trades are on. Az would want no less than most of our top prospects.

I think your ideas leave the bullpen a little weak in the long reliever area. But that is certainly trading the farm to try and make a run, I will give you that. However, we wont make that many moves.

QUOTE(DABearSoX @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:12 AM) 108 games, thats why i was surprised he was wearing a sox hat His injury is such a shame. The guy would have been one of the all-time greats, would make today's players look like bush league.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:29 AM) "a simple wrong would have done just fine" nice

QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:23 AM) So if he can't handle the Texas media, what makes you think he will be able to handle guys like Kotex-boy who make up lies for a living? Also with Scott Borass is his agent, what makes you think that his contract negotiations aren't going to go bad here? All of the problems he snapped because of in Texas would be just as bad, if not worse here. You are one person who likes to look at the long term and career when judging a player. Kenny is a player who has fought through challenges like being drafted a SS, changing to being on the mound, getting rib removed and grinding out years of pitching. He is the protypical grinder player, who hasnt had much acclaim, but goes about his job being underpaid. This incident is a small flash in the pan, and there are many players on our team now who have had bad run ins with the media including Big Frank himself. Im not saying get Kenny, but in no means is he a bad apple.

QUOTE(JDsDirtySox @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 09:21 AM) Have You Seen Griffey play this season? Griffey is having a very good year. I am sure you have seen Rowand play this season. What exactly has Rowand done this year to make him "Aaron Almighty" in your eyes. Griffey is hitting better than Rowand, but it worse on defense. You are willing to sacrafice the only thing that is making this team good? We can go back to having zero defense and hitting hr's if thats what you like. Then you can see the pretty fireworks. Secondly, Griffey is not coming here. We dont need him, we have a clubhouse and defensive cornerstone in his position and already have too many OF'ers. He is paid too much and there are more likely suitors for him. This discussion is dead and pointless. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

QUOTE(RibbieRubarb @ Jul 11, 2005 -> 08:47 PM) Ummm...Looks like you did. One post I said I would do it, but that was not my overall idea. You should read past one page of posts. Maybe even drop in an actual comment worthy of discussion one of these days too. But since you mentioned it, yeah I would trade KOnerko, your idea sounds great. IN fact, it would not only improve our team now, but in the future. Now get back to dropping in one line spam comments in another forum.

He had one problem, thats it. And he was sorry for it. He was immersed in contract problems when a member of the pressed accused him of faking an injury. Thats hores*** to say that he is a problem because of one incident.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jul 12, 2005 -> 08:04 AM) Exactly, and to say Rowand is even close to this guy defensively is a joke. Rowand does not get half the jump Junior gets. It is fine to be a homer but don't make such ridiculous statements such as Rowand is a better defensive CF than Junior. That is just nuts. Are you kidding me? Apparently you went back in time 10 years. Griffey is terrible compared to A-row is every defensive way. Jr doesnt get half the jumps A-row gets and takes much worse routes to the ball. To even make the impression that we are being home team biased is a joke. Griffey is only in center because they dont have anyone else to play and they pay him for it. Horrible horrible horrible to even say that.

horrible