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QUOTE (tommy @ Apr 6, 2009 -> 01:48 PM) I'm so excited about baseball season, Cliff Lee gave up 4 in 2 innings of work so far. the indians can afford to lose these games Lee starts...carl pavano will be the stopper in game 3

we gave up alot Tru is right, but I also believe cutler is a better qb than any qb in this draft...and certainly better than anyone after stafford...according to the NFL draft charts, our offer wouldn't have even been able to get stafford, so hes a moot point I also like cutler better than anyone in next years class (as of right now, hard to tell this far out for sure)...maybe Bradford will be better, but like Stafford, you have to assume he could go #1 which we would have had to offer a bigger package to get Now we could have used those picks on something else, but assuming we used one to land the Future QB....which nobody would have had a problem with...im happy with the guy we got. Are the other picks valuable....damn right they are. But thats the price to pay for a future guy. Would those picks have panned out in 2-3 years...likely 1 for sure, and probably 2...but the bears logic is that now we have a foundation to build around not just for this year, but hopefully for the next decade. If Cutler was 32 theres no doubt the bears dont do this deal. They see him as the longterm answer. Tru, maybe you don't you are entitled to your opinion. If you ask me there aren't many QBs in the league I'd build my team around moving forward before Jay Cutler. and to me thats worth the extra picks we gave up.

tony gwynn jr placed on waivers...

FWIW heres what the Giants traded to get Eli Manning (who at the time was unproven, and even today isn't as good as Cutler IMO, and whom the Giants still had to pay the bonus on) * Rights to 2004 4th Overall Pick, Philip Rivers. * 2004 3rd Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Kicker Nate Kaeding. * 2005 1st Round Draft Pick - Used to draft and sign Linebacker Shawne Merriman. * 2005 5th Round Draft Pick - Traded to Tampa Bay Buccaneers for Left Tackle Roman Oben. So essentially, the giants gave up a #4 overall, a #12 overall (merriman) a 3rd round, and a 5th round, for an unproven Eli, and on top of it had to pay him his bonus... The bears gave up a #18 overall, a pick presumably in the same range (next years 1st) a 3rd round, and GOT a 5th for a proven Cutler, whose bonus they dont have to pay

no problem...here is a link to the entire chart for reference http://www.draftcountdown.com/features/Value-Chart.php

lets also not forget that Cutler put up the numbers he had in his first two years while playign with untreated Type 1 Diabetes. He said before he got it treated he was always tired after practice and never had much energy. FWIW Cutler also ran in an option style attack his first two or three seasons at vandy before they started to spread it out for him his junior and senior years...the guy can move with his feet...he had 17 rushing TDs in his college career...averaging about 10 rushes per game also a stat that lots of people love is Yards/attempt...cutlers 7.35 was 10th in the league, and Ortons 6.39 was 26th

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nfcnorth/0-10-2...er-upgrade.html

evaluating this thing from a nfl draft value perspective.... The Broncos traded up to #11 to get cutler....lets assume cutler was a QB in this draft and the bears traded up to get him at 11. They gave up the #18, 82, and next years 1, which are valued at 900, 180, and we will assume a #20 pick next year valued at 850. So we gave up 1930 points. We got back cutler, who was a #11, valued at 1250 points, and a fifth valued at near 35ish points. So overall net we gave up Orton, and 645 draft points. Is 645 draft points (equivalent to 29th overall pick) and orton worth knowing that your draft pick at 11 will pan out to be what cutler is? If you ask me...yes. To me that seems like a pretty even sided deal, and given the respective needs of the bears and broncos, a win win for both sides. Another way way to put this....Had a current day Cutler been in the draft this year, he would be the #1 pick hands down...3000 value (plus all the $$$ locked into that slot). we gave up an estimated 1930 and orton to get him....

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 3, 2009 -> 06:47 AM) Pace doesn't even have a "very good" year left in him. One or two good/decent years, yes. But he's going on 34 years old, and 34 in O-line years is 95. He's no where near the player he used to be. The Bears replaced Tait with...a new Tait. Which is good, since it negates the loss of Tait, but it doesn't really improve them any. And no, we didn't trade all of our picks, just the ones that usually mean anything. are you kidding me with this? while 34 is not young, if there is one place in football that you see guys playing into their mid to late 30s its o-line...its not nearly the short shelf life position that RB and WR are...its why you see 32 year olds like Faneca get huge multi year deals

Giving JA some credit here for sure.....going into last year....i looked at the draft and was like...hell, we need help everywhere on offense, we needed a RB, WR (or 2), a tackle, and still that elusive QB flashforward one year, and we have Cutler, Forte, Pace, Williams, and a #2/3 WR in hester. In the span of one year, we've filled all of those spots with legit 1st round talent (to go with a 1st round TE in Olsen), with the exception of WR. WR is still a big hole...but its much easier to fill just that 1 spot than the 4 or 5 spots we had to fill a year ago. The signing of Pace can't go unmentioned either. Ya know how hawk always says, when your closer goes down it throws your whole pen out of whack, and getting him back makes every other spot in your pen better? Pace is the same way. RT looks so much better because we have 2 options in Williams and Shaffer. Guard gets better because we have Omiyale to compete with Garza and Beekman, instead of being stuck at RT. The entire line is strengthened significantly by that signing IMO. I absolutely love the look of this offense outside of the WR right now. We are enormous up front with roadgrating O lineman (outside of Williams) and a RB who is excellent in pass protection to help Jay out.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 08:40 PM) Technically it's true. Miller and St. Clair aren't with the Bears any more. That won't make Cutler happy. It'll make him extraordinarily happy. tait you mean, miller was a back up....its also possible the bears upgraded both positions with williams, pace, shaffer and omiyale

i heard harry syaing something about this on the afternoon saloon and i remember from college that cutler was supposed to go to illinois....either illinois took his scholarship away or they only wanted him if he would play safety...either way i know it was under turner so hopefully theres no strained relationship, but i dont forsee it being a big deal

while i believe marshall and royal are good recievers, and better than what the bears have...we dont think of those guys nearly as highly if they have orton throwing to them instead of cutler IMO...cutler made those guys better, and he will make our WR better as well....not saying our guys are better...just saying that i think the league perception of those WRs is inflated because they had a probowl qb throwing to them

QUOTE (Athomeboy_2000 @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 05:49 PM) he is? didnt know that. he grew up a bears fan....hes from santa claus indiana

http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d8048557c 2:47.......Hester was that open about 5 times this year and orton missed him....if Cutler can make that throw once a game Hester is going to be extraordinarily dangerous..

obviuosly it was a long time ago and in college...but nonetheless this is a cool video

i love what we've done this offseason....we've gotten road grating O linemen in Shaffer and Omiyale who will be facing 7 men in the box now to go with a HOFer in pace...Forte coudl have an enormous year....I dont even remember the last time teh bears consistently faced anything other than 8 men fronts....probably hasnt happened in my lifetime

i go defense with the 2nd now...Delmas or rashad johnson to play S? or maybe michael johnson if he is there....i knwo some are down on johnsons production but he oozes potential and is a perfect fit for our scheme

QUOTE (DanksFan @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 05:16 PM) Can anyone explain to me who Orlando Pace is and what the importance of him signing is? I never heard of him,... http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/alltimeno1

kornheiser just floated around the term superbowl contender

i raelly wish i didnt hate jay cutler with every ounce of my body when i was in college...then maybe id have a cutler vandy jersey to sport around now

all those deep throws that orton missed hester on....lots of those will be TDs this year...

this opens up hester deep all day....Olsen becomes a top 5 TE in teh league IMO

we gave up a ton...but this guys legit....4 members of my alma mater could be starting this year....Cutler, Bennett, Williams, and Hillenmeyer...go dores

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 2, 2009 -> 04:04 PM) Who was the LH prospect from New Jersey that KW released on the spot for being disrespectful in a big meeting of all the minor leaguers???? Curious about the answer to that question. not sure but hawk said it happened when KW became director of minor league ops, which was in 1995.....looking through the Barons 1994 roster....Bob Macdonald, LHP, Mike Bertotti, LHP, and Dan Pasqua were from Jersey....on the AAA nashville sounds 1994 roster Henry Manning was a righty from Jersey, Mike Mongiello was also right handed from jersey, so clearly not those two guys... Given the fact that MacDonald was 29 at the time, im guessing it was Mike Bertotti, but thats just a guess nevermind, bertotti pitched for the sox after that....MacDonald never did....so it would seem MacDonald may have been that guy, and maybe hawk was just blowing hot air saying he was one of the organizations best prospects