ptatc

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Feb 17, 2011 -> 02:21 PM) Wow. I didn't realize his injury was that bad. Everything that can go wrong for the Mets has gone wrong. It sounds like they are still in a deep financial mess with the whole Madoff situation as well. Anything that effects the passive stability of the shoulder takes a long time. First you need to get it healed, then stretch it out before you can begin much strengthening. Then you need to begin throwing. It is always a pain to get through that extra stretching phase because you need enough mobility to throw but you need to maintain enough tightness to create the stability needed. Threse types of surgeries more than any other can really change the way a pitcher throws.

91 wins, division champ

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 13, 2011 -> 02:16 PM) Come on man, you know better than this. It's not that they're going up, it's that they're going to go dramatically down this year, before going dramatically back up next year. That's a much different beast from the fact that his innings have been going up the last few years. You could always pitch him in Winter ball to add more innings and get him ready to be a starter next year.

QUOTE (Jake @ Feb 9, 2011 -> 03:13 PM) PT = Physical Therapist ATC = Certified Athletic Trainer I don't know exactly why the acronym doesn't match the description with ATC, they probably didn't want to be CATs. you are correct. the ATC comes from how the certification was attained . Back in the dark ages when I was getting my degrees there were not many degreed athetic trainer programs. you could get a degree in a related field (PT) and work under a current rainer for 2000 hours. There were also a group of 8 courses you needed to take. This group was known as athletic trainers, certified as opposed to athletic trainers who got a degre whowere AT.. Now you must go through a formal degree and those of us olld folks were grandfathered in and the compromise was everyone is known by the predominent category of ATC. Those two were my first degrees and certifications so I use the intialss alot.

QUOTE (SoxFan562004 @ Feb 8, 2011 -> 04:51 PM) encouraging news, but I really hope they don't rush him. I would rather have a month or so of a bad AAAA pitcher than Jake pushing it and being gone for the rest of the year. Especially since first month or so of the season they have some days off so it's easier to go with a 4 man. They really don't need to worry about rushing him. The injury is healed. The only part of the rehab left is to regain strength in the shoulder. As he continues to throw his velocity and endurance will tell them when he is rady. There is no "gutting it out" or "being tough." The injury is gone. It the layoff and subesequent weakness that needs to be dealt with now.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 8, 2011 -> 01:24 PM) What caused his injury is his natural mechanics. When Peavy throws, after the release of the pitch his arm swings back upward instead of allowing inertia to carry it across his chest beneath him. (see the Mitch Williams analysis on the Sox webpage...)This results in his lat muscle taking most of the deceleration impact which is very dangerous and asking for trouble. IMO, If Jake wants to recover and excel, he's gonna have to alter that follow-though and from what I know about Jake, he's not gonna want to do that. The best thing for Jake and the team is to work that into his mechanics NOW. That is the work Cooper was doing with him last year and he just didn't want to stay with it because he was ineffective out there. The problem isn't really with the follow through. The problem comes more from his arm slot. When he drops down to far he brings his arm more to the side and this is why he has the follow through you are describing. When he throws more over the top the follow throough is more what most people like to see. The Sox have tried to change his mechanics but he was uncomfortable with the change and he wasn't as effective. Since his fastball has always been just a little above average, he drops down further to get more movement. Same thing with the slider he gets more "slide" if he drops down. This is why I've said all along that from working with other athletes with this injury, I have no doubt he will come back 100% and probably close to the beginning of the season. Whether he will be effective with the changes I'm sure they are going to want is the big question.

QUOTE (bucket-of-suck @ Feb 8, 2011 -> 01:14 PM) The lat muscle is a deceleration muscle as it relates to pitching. Peavy's is now completely attached again. He'll be much stronger than before. Once it's properly conditioned, velocity will not be a problem. The lat muscle is really more of an acceleration muscle. It's primary function is internal rotation which is when the arm is coming forward. In EMG studies it is active during deceleration but it's primary function is acceleration.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Feb 5, 2011 -> 03:51 PM) And none of those guys were going to command 5-6 year, $100+ million dollar contract on the open market. This is really a first during the KW era. A young, premium talent in his prime that could very well hit FA. We haven't had to worry about this because we don't do young talent here. JR will not approve a contract for a pitcher that is more than 3-4 years. The Sox have been burned too many times. I think they would hesitate but go 4 but that is it. I think Danks is gone when he hits FA.

The two best sports ones are: Steve Kerr: I've torn my ACL and will miss the season Reporter: Doctors say that you only regain 80% of your speed after this surgery. Are you worried? Steve Kerr: 80% of slow is still slow. Walter Payton and Matt Suhey after a camping trip. Reporter: What would the two of you have done if attacked by a bear. Payton: Start running. Suhey: You can't out run a bear. Payton: I don't have to. I just have to out run you.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 02:44 PM) There is no chance Williams is going to trade a starter this late in the offseason, barring the "blown away" package. Teahen was always going to be a 4th outfielder and corner infielder for this team. And as much as I would have loved Jones back - I even said early in the offseason that it would have been one of the first moves I would have made - I can't disagree with it at this time. Adam Dunn still hits lefties fairly well, and though Quentin struggles against them, Ozzie would never take him out against a lefty. And hopefully Viciedo adapts to the outfield well enough so that he can be adequate come anytime from June till the end of the season in case they do need a lefty masher on the bench. Sale is probably going to be in the bullpen this year and moving to the rotation following that, Pena proved he is awful as a starting pitcher, and I don't know why you keep bringing up Humber's name. You're crazy. Maybe he has one lined up and is just waiting to see How Peavy will pitch in spring training before he pulls the trigger.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 02:07 AM) This is a great thread. You never hear these kind of stories. I pity you guys cause there was a time baseball was very very cheap to go to. And it was still entertaining white sox baseball many of those years. There was no reason for this wild escalation of salaries and ticket prices and parking except for owners' greed. Unfortunately now it's way too expensive for many hard working southsiders to go to games. I wouldn't put it all on the owners. The players and the union had something to do with demands as well. Professional sports is really the only industry where the payroll takes up around 60% of the gross revenue. The owners are greedy but don't leave out the players.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 09:02 PM) I just can't understand why they wouldn't have had him in one on the sidelines just for precautionary measures. They wouldn't put him in one if he wasn't going back in. However, I'm surprised he wasn't wrapped in ice.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 04:13 PM) I thought he had surgery for loose shoulder capsules, which basically any pitcher will get over time. Exactly right. However this is a big difference than a reconstruction where they need to rebuild and trnasplant tissue for usually the rotator cuff. Tightening the capsule is an easy procedure with minimal rehab. Mostly just stretching and joint mobilization.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 04:07 PM) Would the training staff have had braces on hand to try and brace Cutler's knee so he could try and gain some stability with it? I know they would not have had a fitted brace necessarily, but is that the sort of thing the medical team would have on hand? Does it seem odd to you that they didn't have him in some kind of brace while he was on the sidelines? They would have the braces on the sideline. It is strange that they didn't have him in one. I was at the game and when they reported he had a knee injury, it was the first thing I looked for. It is possible they tried him with it in the locker room at half time and he was still unstable even with it. This whole injury deals more with instability not pain. If the brace didn't make it stable enough (if they tried one and I can't imagine they didn't) the coaches and medical staff wouldn't let him go back in.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 02:57 PM) And yet...a few years later, he finally went under Dr. James Andrews's knife, and basically wound up having a complete shoulder reconstruction. to be fair Prior did not have a shoulder reconstruction. He had a procedure to tighten it up and clean up a few things. However the point is valid.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 25, 2011 -> 10:38 AM) I want to add in a random fact. Type 1 diabetics are not allowed (only in a worse case situation would they) to take cortisone shots. A local radio show out here had a doctor on talking about it. Geeze, guy goes out and plays 3 series on a torn MCL (grade 2 sprain) without any pain killers. Thats a f***ing man! A cortisone shot would not help this injury. The injections are for joint inflammation. This ligament is extra-articluar. It would not be effected by an injection regardless of his diabetes, which is accurrate.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 07:46 PM) I'd like someone to correct me if I am wrong, but I am pretty sure the MCL and ACL both stabilize the knees on sideways movements. Walking straight forward and standing aren't bothered like sideways movements are. I know we had a guy in our softball league tear his ACL and MCL in a game who tried to keep playing. He could stand without pain, and walk without pain, but he went sideways at all, his knee literally collapsed. I haven't read every post so I don't know if it was answered. The ACL stabilizes the knee in rotation and anterior/posterior. The reason why the MCL and ACL (along with the medial meniscus, referred to as the terrible triad) are frequently injured together is that the knee has more rotation motion. When the knee buckles it doesn't just go in it rotates in as well. this is how all of them become in involved.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) Well, playing running back with that injury and playing quarterback with that injury are slightly different, don't you think? There are very different. The one thing no one knows is how unstable the knee was. A second degree sprain is a medical diagnosis but doesn't tell you how unstable it was. If every time Cutler tried to stand on it it collapsed, there is no way he could play. He would not be able to move especially side to side. This is where the medical expertise come into play. The second degree sprain will be different from person to person and the stability will return in 3-8 weeks depending on the instability. The medical staff and the coaching staff evaluated him and determined that regardless of how tough he is or isn't, the knee will not function properly to do the job. So they sat him. This is all assuming the coaches are telling the truth. It is possible to have this injury and it get worse over a few plays. Just picture when you roll your ankle. That is a sprain. Sometimes you can walk it off, other times it seems to get worse and you need to stop. They had half time to evaluate it which means the injury was somewhere in the middle where they let him try it at the beginning of the second half. He was riding the bike on the sideline to try to keep it loose. However it was severe enough that they didn't like the way he moved with it and decided to bench him.

QUOTE (Controlled Chaos @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 01:44 PM) They are defending Cutler and bashing the Bears PR for allowing Lovie to use the word Sprain instead of partial tear. they have to defend Cutler because they praised the Bears for getting rid of Orton and getting Cutler. They will do it to the end. The important aspects are: It is a ligament SPRAIN. A strain is what you do to a muscle. A sprain can be anything from a slight stretch (first degree) to a total tear (3rd degree). It's obvious from his care on the field that the sprain was a second degree. Enough tearing to cause some instability but not enough to require a brace and immobility. A player can play with this. However, it's also apparent that the Coach determined that it was bad enough that it was having a negative effect on his play. You cannot blame Cutler for the choice the coach made. If the coach felt that it was effecting him too much, he pulled him. It was also obvious that Cutler was having an really awful game so it was a combination of play and injury that made Lovie pull him.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 12:21 PM) As ptatc said brilliantly earlier, if Cutler does have a tear, then it's amazing how poorly the medical staff handled the injury in the 2nd half. You saw a guy like Pouncey get hurt yesterday, and they had him on crutches almost immediately. This is part of the controversy. Tim Bream is good AT and Gordon Nuber is a good Doc. If they really thought it was a significant tear, they would have had him in a brace to attempt to play . Once that didn't work, he would have been in a brace with his leg straight with ice and probably crutches. None of this occured, which leads me to think the injury wasn't severe. I guess it was just bad enough to make him limp and limit his mobility. Remember a tear of the ligament can be anything from a mild tear (sprain) to a total rupture.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:54 AM) Urlacher and Kreutz haven't exactly been known as organizational guys. They say what is on there mind. they aren't organIzation guys but they are good team mate. They donKt rip team mates in public. They don't like him but as good team mates they will protect him.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:40 AM) It is pretty clear that his teammates, who didn't always like him (if you want to believe the reports of what Urlacher had once said about Jay), certainly like him now. They are all coming to his back and these are guys that are tough men themselves (Kreutz/Urlacher). I think it is pretty naive of you to go arm chair about what he could/couldnt' play through. Jay is well liked in that lockeroom and you know what, thats all that matters to me. But the national media doesn't like him cause he treats us poorly, whahaa whaaah wahaa. f*** YOU MEDIA. Very few like him and most never will. What you're hearing from the players is what you expect to hear from the leaders on the team. They will stick up for their teammates regardless of their true feelings. Just like when people stick up for AJ on the Sox. No one likes him but as good teammates they'll say the right things.

If this is true, it will be interesting if they try surgery. Surgery on this injury isn't much better than conservative treatment. I wonder why he didn't have a brace on? It is pretty irresponsible to not have at least a lateral leg brace on him after the injury.

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Jan 24, 2011 -> 10:04 AM) The fact that the Bears completely dominated the 2nd half with the worst 2nd stringer in the history of the NFL and their 3rd stringer playing and had multiple chances to tie it. If you are so blind you can't see this then don't bother replying. And if you can't see that Cutler was playing one of the worst games of his career, you should watch the game again. There was no way the Bears were going to win that game with the way he was playing, whether it was from injury or nerves or whatever. He was really really bad when he was in there.