YASNY

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 10:15 AM) Currently one proposal calls for 330,000 immigrants per year and another calls for less. Neither proposal links these immigrants actually having means of suppporting themsleves. Some link to where immigrants have to have jobs seems like a no brainer to me. I don't have an exact method in mind, but perhaps either a direct; Juan Carlos Espinosa's application as a guest worker is sponsored by Hormel who needs him in their chicken processing plant or a floating number based on unemployment numbers. But to say in 2008 we will allow X number of immigrants is just stupid. They can be let in, a controlled number, with the caveat they have to have employment within X number of days. Hell ... As I type this, I see all kinds of logistical problems with it. I don't know how to address this.

QUOTE(Steff @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:56 AM) Of course there would have been an investigation, and Bush would have been picked apart. A release of the facts would have proved that there was no other choice. Hard to argue with the fact that the passsengers on the plane had the mindset of taking the plane down. Hell.. they are considered hero's because they (supposedly :rolly ) did just that. Dem's would have been ripped worse for trying to vilify the same exact thing those in the situation were leading. The Dems certainly would have had to been careful. I totally agree with you there. QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 10:06 AM) Actually, remember the bull horn and 90% approval ratings? I believe, at that time, he would have been given the benefit of a lot of doubt. Today? Toast him. Not fair, but reality. I agree a calm, sensible investigation is always a better approach, but politicians won't allow for that. Good points.

I'll say this much, though. This is the main reason I've been stumping for secure borders. That would curtail the need for Nat'l ID cards and databases. Once the border is effectively under control, then the weeding out process could take place through the natural course of events. In other words, pull someone over for speeding and if he's illegal alien, arrest and turn over to the proper department. No need for mass roundups. QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 10:02 AM) I don't like the way things are and am glad we are having a national debate about it. One thing I have total faith in is America's ability to solve big problems. We have a system that allows for all voices to be heard, a single voice can change the world. So I am encouraged by the way things are headed. It is the things we aren't talking about that worry me more. Now if I could just hear more people linking jobs to immigration, I'd be even happier. What? You mean Natalie Holloway isn't an important issue? Explain what you mean by linking jobs to immigration.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:58 AM) Currently employers are required to look at various forms of identification to determine if an applicant can legally work in the US. Many people are proposing destroying any businesses that are caught with illegals. Huge fines, prison, etc. If we are going to make the penalties so severe that someone's life work would be destroyed if they hire someone who is found to be llegal, shouldn't there be a full proof way that employers would be protected? How else could we do it without changing our present ID systems? I don't have all the answers, my friend. I just don't like the way things are headed.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:54 AM) This would have been an extraordinary event in our history. The only prudent thing would be for it to be investigated. The President would have ordered innocent US citizens killed. No way that should be allowed to pass with a shrug of the shoulders. No matter who the President is. The alternative is just trusting the President and we have never in our history allowed that to pass. The nagging question would be, could the people on the plane have overpowered the terrorists and taken control of the plane, and how much time should have been allowed to see if that was going to happen? The plane was heading to heavily populated areas, the window was closing quickly. I really don't think they shot the plane down and no one saw it. So this is just a theoretical question. Oh, I agree there would have had to have been an investigation of it. But there are calm, sensible investigations and there is treestump rhetoric. I'm sorry, but Bush would not have been given one iota of the benefit of the doubt. Which is why I say the passenger communications would have been such an out, and easily have supplied Bush with a reason to never acknowledge the order had been given.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:47 AM) The chip under the skin would be convienent. I understand the concerns, and share many of them, but like I said, combining all the cards in my wallet and my passport seems ok to me. Where we go from there, should be debated. I do think we are heading towards a system where proving citizenship will be important, and I can't think of a more convienent way than a national ID card. Carrying a passport sucks, I had to carry a green card for working in Mexcio, about the same size as a passport, for a few years and it is a pain. Now they are talking about a national database the employers would be required to check before hiring someone. In fact, I think Georgia is trying to implement this right now. So, in effect, that gives the gov't the ability to approve or disapprove of hirings. This is an offshoot of the illegal immigration problem, but easily expandable to include everyone.

QUOTE(Steff @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:41 AM) 2K+ (guessing on the #) people had already died, three major buildings had been hit, and there were more than a dozen calls confirming the plane was hijacked... there would have been no negative ramifications had that plane needed to be shot down, IMO. Obviously - from the actions of those on the place - they knew that was the only choice. As logical as that sounds, the press still would have been all over him. The Dems would be screaming for an investigation. They are always sniffing for blood with Bush.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:39 AM) We'd have to draw the line before that. But that's how they work. A little here (Nat'l cards), a little there (chip in the cards), then ... chip implanted under the skin.

QUOTE(JackTalkThai @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:35 AM) Adding to the fact that they've played 23 of their first 38 games on the road, I don't care who the competition is...a 16-7 road record is a 16-7 road record. That (and pitching) are a few of the bigger signs of a good team. And Detroit has a fairly inexperienced pitching staff as Robertson, Bonderman, Maroth and Verlander have just 9 seasons of starting pitching experience combined between the four of them. So their historical "they aren't second half pitchers" line really doesn't carry a whole lot of water IMO. Undeveloped pitchers eventually mature and that appears to be what's going on with the Tigers. Yes. I'm in total agreement with you.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:32 AM) I don't see the difference between a national ID card and me carrying a Texas driver's license and a passport. In fact, give me a universal card that would work as my driver's license, library card (already there) Blockbuster discount card, gym membership card, credit card, debit card, selected medical history, Sam's Club card, etc. We are already carrying all that stuff, let's combine it into one. When they put RFID chips in them, they are basically tracking devices.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:26 AM) I would not have disagreed with that decision, and I would have a great deal of sympathy for Bush for being placed in that position. I couldn't imagine a worse position. Although, once it was determined that terrorists were flying the plane, it would be easy to make the conclusion they were already going to die, so minimize the casualties. But I would never have a good night's sleep again. I wouldn't have disagreed either. But, he would have been put through the wringer by the media and opposition party. Probable headline: Bush orders plane shot down to save himself!

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:20 AM) I think there is a window of opportunity, and guys like McCain and Lieberman could lead the way. As the parties polarize themselves, they are leaving a lot of Americans in the middle. I know this much. The Democratic Party is way to liberal for me. I'm not going to buy into any temporary centrist movement on their part, either. When it comes down to it, I don't trust the Bushies. Conservative agendas are one thing, but driving us toward fascism is something else. And your National ID card is one step in that process, by the way.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 17, 2006 -> 09:06 AM) Players don't just hit below .200 in the majors anymore, and remain a full-time starter. Ozzie has already been discussing, as of a few weeks ago, how Anderson has to start having better at-bats in order to keep his starting spot. He did have some better at-bats over the last few weeks. However, if he continues to hit in the .170s for another 30 or 40 games, I'm confident in saying that a change will be made in CF for THIS season. He's already dug himself quite a hole. If he hits .250 from here on out, he'll still be stuck below the Mendoza line for a while.

I think I'm going to say the hell with both parties and go Libertarian.

The times I've flown Southwest I've always had an assigned seat.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 06:55 AM) I applaud how conservatives will find one issue and pull their support from the President until it gets addressed. Sounds like Rex is right. Conservatives were upset about gay marriage, the President poll numbers suffer. He works on that, poll number rebounds. Now conservatives go after illegals. Illegals the new gays. Good call Rex. Rex does has a valid point. You have to take into consideration, though, that the conservative base was already unhappy with various aspects of Bush's presidency, for example the excessive spending/big gov't that has occured. That is usually the mantra of the Democrats.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 17, 2006 -> 08:36 AM) There would have been countless debates, lawsuits, and an impeachment trial to determine if the President can use the military to kill citizens. And the pilots would ultimately be revealed. Nope, I see it remaining classified and top secret for a long time, IF it even happened. Sit down, Texsox. Because this is filibuster and I'm agreeing with you. The "Let's Roll!" guys gave Bush the out he needed if, in fact, that plane was shot down.

QUOTE(KipWellsFan @ May 16, 2006 -> 06:21 PM) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perjury That explains it then. Clinton forgot he had sex with Lewinski.

QUOTE(Texsox @ May 16, 2006 -> 08:30 PM) There is a conspiracy for everything. This one centers around the crater and the plane. The reasoning for shooting it down follows the logic of, we can't gain control of the plane, the plane is going to fly into something and kill many more people, possibly tens of thousands (early death toll estimate for World Trade Towers), the passengers are doomed anyways, let's minimize the casualties. The military shooting down a civilian plane, full of innocent US citizens, wouldn't be something anybody would want to take credit for. It has since been stated, however, that in any future incident of a similar nature that the military taking out the plane will definitely be an option. If that did happen with Flight 93, the communications indicating the passengers were going to take action gave the president the opportunity not to have to make that announcement.

QUOTE(Rex Kickass @ May 16, 2006 -> 11:33 PM) Shake your head all you want but its true. The gay marriage amendments are all passed in the states where its going to increase GOP turnout enough to matter and now suddenly its all about immigration. The GOP suddenly "woke up" to illegal immigration one year after our Republican president offered to fund 210 out of 10,000 proposed new border agents. It wasn't an issue they thought about addressing until their poll numbers went south and suddenly we need a new thing to felonize. All this is is posturing and grandstanding at the expense of other people - regardless of what you think of them. If they really cared about fixing our immigration policy, we would have done something about it last january, or 5 years ago, or 12 years ago when the Contract on America finally got the GOP in some form of control to begin with. The numbers went south because the conservative base got tired of the illegal immigration issue being ignored.

QUOTE(Jimbo @ May 17, 2006 -> 12:52 AM) not for a while will we see Hermy. If ever.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:52 PM) Well, at least we know you're willing to secure the border as long as someone else is willing to pay for it. I'm still working this year to pay my 2006 taxes. The last I heard the break even date was June 15th. I think we pay enough to expect secure borders.

QUOTE(SleepyWhiteSox @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:36 PM) How would that be a fair question if I never said I supported them but a couple of you did say you were glad the minutemen brought this issue to attention? Too much has come out about the minutemen and racist ties for it to just be a coincidence. One of their leaders left for that very same reason. Funny you should mention "gringos out" when much worse things have been heard in minutemen rallies. Yes, I said I'm glad the minutemen brought this to attention. There are some jerks in every crowd. Most of the minutemen proved to be law abiding citizens that never confronted any border crossers. They notified the BP. If bringing up the separatists, isn't fair, then your contentions are just as unfair.

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:20 PM) So you're telling me that this is only a crisis in the literary sense? Damn, we ought to send the National Guard in to protect people from the Davinci Code too. Nothing literary about it. We are overrun with illegals and have open borders. Their little May Day party woke up a lot of Americans. Now, there is focus on the issue.

QUOTE(WCSox @ May 16, 2006 -> 02:16 PM) Don't look at me. I was just having a conversation with somebody about the size of the ballpark. Soxtalk should be above this I'm-a-bigger-fan-than-you crap. If you want that, go over to WSI. Not looking at anybody. Just hoping I don't have to.