TaylorStSox

Giolito sounds like a Don Cooper dream as he already has a plus 2 seamer and change to go along with a big 4 seamer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:57 PM) You'll be used to it soon enough. Good

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 04:51 PM) No, it isn't. We still haven't fixed the main problem in this franchise. Why do you keep talking like we aren't done making moves? Clearly this is a multifaceted rebuild.

I watched around 10 entire games last year because I couldn't stand to watch a franchise with no balls and no direction. I promise to attend 15 games this year to support a franchise that's not scared to take some risks to compete for the long haul.

I'm floored. Amazing. I'm calling Rick Hahn to offer him future considerations for any of my yet born daughters.

Holy s***. I'm eating crow and loving it.

QUOTE (elrockinMT @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 03:09 PM) What amazes me is this rumor gets going about us parting with a gold glove OFer who swings a good bat and a Cy Young candidate in the same trade with a return of second level minor league players and some think it's acceptable or even true To be fair, Eaton has never won a GG. Q has never finished higher than 10th (2016) in Cy Young contention and nobody has suggested trading them for second level minor league players.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:57 PM) Highly irrelevant when evaluating players. Derek Jeter won like 12 gold gloves, but that doesn't mean s***. 4-5 WAR players are all-star caliber. 6+ WAR is MVP-level. Those are benchmarks regardless of voting results. There's not a GM in baseball that would come close to considering Adam Eaton a "major award-caliber player."

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:51 PM) I mean, that's fine, but you can't expect to receive a top 10 P and a top 3 OF in 2016 without moving him. They would be acquiring 2 all-star caliber, major award-caliber players. Keep Turner, but no shot at those 2 paired together. Adam Eaton has never been an All Star and never finished higher than 19 in MVP voting.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:48 PM) Big guy, lots of tools, raw power. 25 years old. Taylor must love Avi Garcia. Why are you being an asshole? I haven't insulted anyone.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:39 PM) They are 8 months apart in age. Apparently Heyward's tools took a huge hit and now that he is almost 28, using your criteria, there really isn't any hope these tools develop. I actually think Eaton is improving, and think he will hit with more power. I also though Heyward would hit with more power when he became a Cub, but he is messed up, and hasn't hit for much power in several years. You should read the thread again. The debate started because we were talking about Eaton's value now vs Heyward's value then. They were compared because much of their WAR value is in their defense. My position is that Heyward was far more valuable at the time because Heyward has better tools and athleticism. It's certainly not unheard of for a an athletically gifted baseball player to continue to develop at the age of 26. The Cubs were willing to take a risk because of his upside. Eaton does not possess that upside.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:37 PM) So they didn't factor in defense at all? And how are the Heyward/Moncada situations comparable in the slightest? Jesus christ, what's with the strawmen? Did I ever say they didn't value defense? I said a team isn't going to give up the farm for a guy whose WAR has been drastically inflated due to RF defense. Maybe if he was a plus defender at CF, C, or SS.

QUOTE (NCsoxfan @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) There's nothing to indicate that Heyward is still developing or has "potential" after 7 full seasons in the big leagues. What you see for both is basically the best of what you'll get. Except ability. Again, we'll find out what kind of value Eaton has real soon. I bet you guys are going to be pretty disappointed.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:35 PM) Actually he wasn't signed as a 25 year old. Do you really think they would think the same today? Also, of the 30, is there 1 that would trade Adam Eaton straight up for Jason Heyward? Okay, replace the 5 with a 6 and address the post.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:32 PM) You're absolutely nuts if you think the Cubs gave Heyward $184 million because of his tools. Because his offense was nowhere good enough to justify it. As an established player, yes, I think the Cubs were willing to risk it. We just picked up a guy the Red Sox invested $62M in as a 20 year old (?) with no track record.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:29 PM) Eaton is 8 months older than Heyward. You must really love Heywards raw power, I'll take results. Eaton has hit more homers than him each of the last 2 seasons. And if Eaton's WAR is all from defense, how do you conclude Heyward's is not? Look at their offensive numbers. Let's go over this again... "Heyward was signed as a 25 year old." "Eaton will be traded as a 28 year old." Established 25 year olds with plus tools have more value than established 28 year olds with limited tools. Poll 30 MLB GM's and ask them which player has more potential. I think you're going to get a pretty clear cut idea.

Regardless, we'll know how valued Eaton is in a couple days. I'm banking on some of you guys being pretty disappointed.

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:21 PM) You're absolutely nuts if you don't think Heyward was signed because of his defense in right field. Sure, the Cubs were probably hoping for some increased offensive production due to his tools but if he wasn't thought of as the best defensive right fielder in the league then he's not making anywhere near that type of money. You're absolutely nuts if you think RF defense has become that valued.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:12 PM) Adam Eaton isn't athletic. Right. Compared to Jason Heyward? Is this even up for debate? Heyward signed as a 25 year old with good established offensive production and the plus tools to project increased production. He wasn't signed because of his defensively inflated WAR. Eaton will be traded as an established 28 year old without near the upside to project. He's a hell of a player, but his some of his numbers are smoke and mirrors. GM's aren't dumb.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 02:05 PM) Heyward showed us what he is maxed out in his season with the Cardinals, which is basically Adam Eaton. The Cubs took a risk in Heyward hoping his bat would improve because they had so little money tied up into the core. They could afford it. They took that risk because of his upside and athleticism. Eaton is never going to be 6'5 240 with plus athleticism and plus raw power.

QUOTE (ChiliIrishHammock24 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:54 PM) I'll take the guy who is trending upward vs the guy who fell off a cliff after signing a monumental contract and was so bad he was benched because of it. Can't think the 2016 plus the amount of money he's making doesn't weigh on him. He may not put up another sub 2-WAR season, but I highly doubt he ever reaches 6 again. Heyward still has way more upside than Eaton ever will because of his athleticism and tools. Eaton's maxed out and I would guess GM's aren't going to be fooled by WAR numbers that are inflated by RF defense. People keep bringing up his WAR, but he's still a guy that finished 19th in MVP voting and will probably never be higher. You aren't going to give up the farm for that.

QUOTE (daa84 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:41 PM) the best recent FA comp for eaton is jason heyward who was worth 184 mil in the free agent market. Likely Eaton isnt quite worth that much, but the reality is that he is an extremely valuable trade asset signed at an incredibly cheap price for many years to come. If they are bundling he and Quintana, they better be getting an even better package than what they got for Sale (ie it must include turner) Eaton doesn't have the upside of Heyward. Potential is always sexy in any investment.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 01:10 PM) Not sure how this deal is possible without Turner, Giolito and Robles. Otherwise I want Ross, Giolito, Robles, Lopez and my pick of 5-6 other prospects. If you want 3 top 50 prospects and 7 other players, you didn't learn much yesterday.

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 7, 2016 -> 11:49 AM) Crazy thing is how the SS have such great hit tools vs. OF that are a lot more raw hit tools now. Basically if you are athletic people are pushing you to SS. I bet it used to be CF. It's always been SS. Most pro baseball players have been a SS at some level. It's always been where you put your best player.

QUOTE (ChiSoxFanMike @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 08:51 AM) Anything new on Twitter? It's killing me not having access to it right now. Yeah, tons of stuff. It's mostly about a guy punching a kangaroo though.