chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:34 PM) Eating that much money would've likely been a problem for a number of teams, but the Red Sox definitely can afford it. Well it's money already spent and budgeted. They just took on Sale's salary minus Moncada's and functionally it's like they just traded for Sale at 3 years 100 million (adding on what they invested in Moncada). But yea, they were certainly one of 3-4 teams that could afford Moncada's initial price tag.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:29 PM) And that he's struggling with in regards to things like footwork and arm angles. Seems like CF would be a more natural position and would allow him to focus more on his offense. In my experience in the game, just as a player and also around some college and low level pro coaches, CF is as much instinctual as it is athletic. Hell, hit him 5000 fungos before April and see if when you hit it he goes and gets them with no missteps or wasted energy (hello Adam Eaton in CF). If he does, maybe he's a natural out there but if can't really believe the Red Sox didn't already do this. If was a natural out there, he'd probably already have been moved. We'll see. As I said earlier, 3B, 2B and CF are all within 5% production wise (hitting) in MLB so whatever position he ends up at is fine, just play it at least league average. This isn't a situation where he's moving to LF or 1B.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:27 PM) With Hahn's presser, and this tweet, it makes it seem as though Kopech was offered initially, and then perhaps the Nats offer was enough to force the Red Sox into conceding Moncada. Not sure that I believe this is the order it went in though. It certainly appears that the Sox finally managed to leverage one team's interest to get a better deal from another. It's not an overpay from the Red Sox but IMO it would have been an underpay from the Nationals if the rumor discussed last night was their best offer.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:22 PM) Dan Hayes ‏@CSNHayes 56m56 minutes ago Andrew Benintendi was never an option for #WhiteSox. Yoan Moncada was added later in process. Bregman, T. Turner never offered. If this is true, and we have no reason to doubt it, then they did well to get the deal done with Boston today. There is an opportunity cost here and they avoided it. Now they can focus on the other dominoes behind Sale and keep moving in the rebuild.

Apparently the 31 million dollar signing bonus, no matter how spread out, would have always been paid by the Red Sox, so they didn't really "pitch in" another 11 million or so. That's my understanding at least after reading larry's post at SSS. I don't think you can "trade" a signing bonus if that makes any sense.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 07:10 PM) 1st time a #1 prospect has been traded? That guy Marte on the Braves got traded but he was widely considered at the time (and certainly in hindsight) to be one of the weakest #1 overall prospects ever. From what I'm reading about Moncada, physically he's a once a decade talent and skill wise has more than enough to back up his #1 overall rating by some sites. He's legit. He needs to pan out. Hopefully not even the Sox player development team can screw this one up.

QUOTE (Deadpool @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:53 PM) Per Rick, Moncada will start in AAA. Not a ready product. Really good stuff from him. Thank God. There's no reason not to extend to the 7th year of guaranteed control. Hell, even if he was "ready" (like Byrant) you hold him out the extra two months that's just how you play it from the club's long term perspective.

QUOTE (SEALgep @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:53 PM) For those preferring CF, I wonder if the DP combo with Anderson is being discounted. Hate to say it but this isn't a video game, why would you ask this guy, who is no doubt going to be fairly unsettled for a minute, to move to a position he's never played regularly in pro baseball? It's not how you start the relationship imo.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:43 PM) His arm and his speed seem wasted at 2B. 2B and CF and 3B are both within about 5% production hitting wise at the MLB level (2016 data) it really doesn't make that much of a difference value wise the important thing is not to screw with the kid. Putting him in CF would be screwing with him and for what upside? That he's an elite CF where at 2B he might just be average? Just not a risk worth taking. This kids value is in his bat and his ability to project as average at 3B or 2B.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:33 PM) Blah. I was hoping to see CF. 2B seems to be a waste. From all indications his issues in the infield are similar to Anderson's. Asking him to move to CF doesn't make sense as he'd have the same issues there, probably even more so as he's never consistently played there at any level. Just let him get reps in Charlotte he'll iron out his footwork in the infield. His arm is too good of an asset to move to CF imo. He will more easily be a plus defender at 2B than CF imo. In CF you'd be putting a lot of his defensive value in his routes, and I'm pretty sure if the Red Sox thought he was a natural out there he would already have moved.

QUOTE (Heads22 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:31 PM) LOL @ people seeing that we asked for Benintendi and Betts last year and are pissed we got this now. I mean, Boston didn't offer them last year, so it's not like we somehow screwed up by not getting them last year. They were never going to get Betts. Maybe if they "threw in" Eaton or some s***. You could make an argument that straight up, over the next three years, you'd prefer Betts to Sale. Betts is probably top 10 league wide in trade value, he's right there with Sale.

QUOTE (Frank_Thomas35 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 06:01 PM) This will get you excited if you weren't already: "Scouting the White Sox’ Monster Return for Chris Sale | FanGraphs Baseball" via http://TeamStre.am by Bleacher Report http://teamstre.am/2h312td Well, it cannot be argued the Sox didn't get some very high upside guys. I'd argue maybe they should have been looking for more high floor guys, especially after Moncado was in the deal, but overall I'm excited and think they got fair value.

Man that guy Kopech and his girl look like epic douches. I'm just getting old though I have a visceral hate boil up in me when I see 20 year olds using snapchat filters.

QUOTE (SouthSideSale @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 05:36 PM) Jose is my favorite White Sox player. Has been for awhile now. With that said, you have to move him now. Teams should be desperate now to give you a very good package. For Jose? Coming off a 2.8 bWAR year and two straight declines? I don't know if teams are lining up for that. He's also into arb now so there's not much surplus value in his contract. I'd be thrilled to get back a single top 100 prospect and a lotto ticket for him.

Great video, yea that AB was like watching a rookie in the NBA just absolutely school a veteran all-star on a 1v1 matchup and the vet just kinda tips his hat to the new stud.

You could argue he's now our best player. He should not be moved lightly. He's young and cheap enough that he could be around for any future good times.

I saw him carrying the pink backpack his rookie year in Baltimore pregame, in a game that Viciedo actually started at 3B. Then he came in in relief later in the game and was all arms and elbows, IIRC that was his MLB debut. Proud to say I was at the game. That will be my lasting memory of him, all promise and mostly fulfilled individually but not as a team. But he is only one of 25.

I want to see Jose come into camp lean. Not 18-22% body fat but around 12%. The extra 20lbs he carries around do not help his lower body stay injury free during the year.

QUOTE (BigHurt3515 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:15 PM) Don't they just have to press a few buttons to make trades happen? I can say in OOTP 16 under standard trade settings this deal never would have gone down. The AI in '16 is crazy in love with prospects. They probably would have accepted that package minus Moncada!

QUOTE (hi8is @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:13 PM) Find solace that they got almost 32mm instead. That could buy anything from a top tier ace to three 2 WAR type players in 2019 or 2020. My understanding is they already paid him about 20 million of the 31 million dollar bonus. The other 31 million was tax, which the White Sox won't be paying. So in essence they got 11 million thrown into the deal. Not quite as good as 31 million but not bad either.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:12 PM) If they even suspect that is possible, then you take the best offer you can for him. Yes you do. Of course, if he bounces back this year that throws a wrench into my argument. But his decline so far looks like a pretty standard aging curve from late 20s to early 30s.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 04:08 PM) I'm iffy on that - my big issue is the performance dropoff. Stepping back and considering season by season, he's gotten progressively worse each year he's been here, and we haven't gotten a good reason why. Maybe the problem in the 1st half last year was health. He's had health issues since he arrived, so we can't say "that will get better with time" because that's not how Health works. If the issue wasn't health, then we have no answer about why he is trending down or about what happened with his first half slump last year. Last thing you want to do is offer him another $60 million to extend for a couple years and then have him turn into Ryan Howard. We've got 3 years of control left on him, at the very least I'd say add another year of data to see what his bat is like next year before you talk extension. If that costs us an extra $20 million in the long term I'm ok with that, that would mean his bat recovered next year and that's a gamble I'm ok with losing a bit. As I've said before: the simplest explanation is that's he's not 29, he's 32.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:59 PM) I was gung ho on moving Abreu until we traded for a top flight young Cuban. I'm a little more open to holding him now unless we get a good deal for him for that reason alone. Jose should be held for no other reason then his value is low. If he rebuilds some value by midseason I'd be more inclined to move him. There's not much downside to keeping him IMO he's not blocking anybody and if he doesn't perform his contract won't break the bank.

Sale is a pitcher and subject to TINSSAAP like all the rest. He's inherently risky as a long term bet. Sox did well to move him while his value as still at peak. You wait until mid season you take a big risk that he gets injured or suffers performance decline.

QUOTE (pettie4sox @ Dec 6, 2016 -> 03:56 PM) What's the initial take from people regarding the return? Fair, overwhelmed, underwhelmed? Completely fair. Both sides got what they wanted IMO. White Sox got their "anchor" and the Red Sox just became odds on WS favorites for '17.