chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 4, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) Jesus. Should I go around correcting everyone's grammar as well? There's a lot of people who annoy me as well, but I put up with them because it's a White Sox fans MESSAGE BOARD. It's supposed to be fun and enjoyable. What has KW done since 2005 that makes him NOT SUCK? If you have a predisposed belief (or non-predisposed, because everyone here, of course, doesn't have a single bias and analyzes statistics and players just as dispassionately as a FanGraphs algorithm) that he's go great, what's YOUR ARGUMENT? He's in the wrong here and digging the hole deeper. If nobody can ever be wrong about a player or season or team or anything then this message board would have zero posts and zero posters. Again I am shocked that the admin team here finds his behavior mod worthy. Why is he a mod, because he posts a lot and has been here awhile? It certainly isn't for his mod skills.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 4, 2015 -> 02:49 PM) Or chitownsportsfan's favorite player, Avi Garcia. I remember when Hahn wanted to trade Peavy for a deal centered around Middlebrooks and KW said no because he preferred Avi. Irony. Wow. I can just shake my head that you are a mod.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 4, 2015 -> 02:40 PM) How did I insult you? I think you're just insecure. This is a message board, if you're going to make baseless points, you're going to be asked to back them up. I don't have a problem with you and don't pay attention to how cordial you've been but I do pay attention to you making silly proclamations based on your predisposed beliefs (See, KW/RV suck, Hahn that GOAT). Back up your posts and we can hold hands through this tough time. When Caulfield calls you out for the same thing a post before mine I think it's pretty clear you're setting up strawman arguments and trying to antagonize posters. If you want to go through ever poster's history and call out everytime they are wrong and continue to hammer on the points you'll be a pretty busy man. Not only is that not how you moderate a forum it's trolling IMO. I think Hahn is a very good GM and I think KW has wore out his welcome long ago. Those are my opinions man. If you want to argue those opinions are incorrect fine. But don't start out a post to me or anyone else with some macho guy online "I'm CALLING YOU OUT" BS. I was arguing a very specific point about how the org values defense and you decided to turn it into a discussion about how I don't respond to criticism and my GM preference. Get real I don't respond to vapid trolling and moronic arguments. There's a lot here to move past. I don't give a f*** about holding hands with you I simply was nice to you out of respect as your position as a mod and mine as a poster. If you want to turn every single discussion into a referendum on who gets the most points for making correct predictions -- well, that's about the farthest thing from a mod's job as possible. Where's the guy that posted the "I have a bad feeling thread"? He should be awarded a million internet points.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 4, 2015 -> 02:25 PM) You went the whole post without mentioning KW. Bravo. You blame Kenny for picking Micah over Sanchez, a move that is nowhere near the forefront of this team's problems. When you were asked to explain why Kenny Williams is a cancer and why that move reeks of KW you defer to Vince Coleman, Buddy Bell and assumptions on the organization's philosophy (Hahn?). Then onto Alexei/LaRoche and on... I guess if you can't defend your irrational assumptions you can always just change the subject. What are you digging at? What do you want me to admit? That I speculated about KW's influence? Again, I continue to be suprised that you are a mod here. I have been nothing but cordial to you for weeks and you insulted me for no reason after 8 pages of good discussion and then when I answer you you continue to dig at....what exactly? I have no f***ing idea who runs this club at the end of the day. Neither does anyone here unless they are JR or his family. Given that, we can only surmise and use induction. I have surmised that Micah over Sanchez was KW. Why? Because KW has drafted a million Micah's and not a single one has ever panned out. The move reeks of his scouting stereotype hard on -- a track star on the baseball field.

QUOTE (raBBit @ May 4, 2015 -> 02:07 PM) Please explain this. You have no reason to think this. You usually don't respond when someone calls you out, but if you do, please respond to the bolded with your reason to think that. I just love this board's rationale. All winter I was saying KW is more involved than you guys are acknowledging. I was told this was Hahn's team and I was wrong. Now, with the players underperforming, KW made all of these moves. Everyone's making assumptions that decision X (at this point in time) was a bad one, and since it hasn't worked out in the twenty-whatever games, it has KW all over it. We have no idea who suggested/executed the majority of the moves. Some moves, however, have leaked out to the public. For instance, KW spearheaded the Abreu signing and Hahn worked exclusively with David Forst to get Samardzija (a move attributed to KW by the fickle SoxTalk masses). Most of you can save yourselves the time with long posts and just be succinct and say RV/KW suck and Hahn's still the GOAT so the rest of the rational posters who can handle the team's skid can skip right over it. Micah or Sanchez is a symbol for everything that is wrong with how this org develops position players. They value athletes over ball players. They value some nebulous thing like "speed" over repeatable, real skills like above average defense up the middle, they rush guys before they've even proven they can tear it up in the upper minors. They talk out of both sides of their mouth. According to Buddy Bell the gap between AAA and MLB has never been higher. So what do they do with Micah? We'll just skip a full season in AAA! We'll hire Vince Coleman and just skip the natural maturation process that happens and try and have him learn how to read pitchers at the MLB level! Micah is currently below replacement in fWAR so yea, he's not part of the solution. I keep bringing him up because on a team that is awful defensively they decided to keep arguably their best defensive infielder on AAA. Ramirez is looking pretty toasty as well. I guess their scouts just missed that or assumed he could play SS until he turns 40. And what else, they sign La Roche and talk about letting him play 1st base 2-3 times a week? How often is he playing 1B? Once a week? They talk about getting better defensively but then you look at their decisions and you realize it's all hot air. If you want to talk about "calling me out" go ahead but I have articulated my position on Sanchez and Micah over and over and over again on this forum. You're free to go through my post history. So far, pretty much every single thing I predicted has come to pass with the two. Micah is struggling, making little to no impact, and the defense has been bottom 5 in MLB. Meanwhile, Sanchez proved in the spring and so far in AAA that he's MLB ready.

This start just really magnifies how awful the ORG's talent base was when Hahn took over. Nobody ready in the upper minors, no young promising position players and for the most part not many "surplus value" contracts. Now, the Sox have some great pieces but they still have huge holes obviously. Personally I'd put my faith in Hahn over anyone else in the ORG at this point. I don't think you can emphasize enough how awful the roster was he inherited from KW. KW is a cancer IMO. The Micah over Sanchez decision has KW written all the f*** over it.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 4, 2015 -> 01:42 PM) Ventura is the very definition of "bold hire". Gardenhire is the definition of a "safe hire". Bold is new and different, not a guy who is 57 years old and has 13 years of MLB managerial experience. If you want a re-tread, just say you want a re-tread. Hiring a guy that was doing college baseball commentary that had zero managing experience wasn't "bold". It was stupid and the general reaction at the time was "wtf?" Maybe it was "bold". But it was boldly stupid. Like sending a dic pick to the girl you're macking on.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 4, 2015 -> 01:34 PM) The idea that the White Sox will hire outside of the organization is 100% laughable to me. Anyone who is counting on Ron Gardenhire to be brought in is fooling themselves. I'd say the odds that the replacement manager is already drawing a White Sox paycheck are somewhere around a 2nd standard deviation level of confidence for me. Well we'll continue to suck then imo. Hiring from within has got them were they are. The Bulls made a bold move with Thibs (hard to fathom now but it was seen as so at the time) and JR needs to make another bold move IMO and hire his next guy outside the org. Honestly the only "org guy" I could live with is probably Ozzie. He's far from my first choice but if they are gonna go that route they could do worse IMO.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 4, 2015 -> 01:25 PM) They can play this baseball for the last 140 games. That is literally worse than playing it for the first 22 games. Well that's true but do you have any faith that RV is going to lead the Sox into the playoffs any time soon? If you fire Robin and install a guy that's won some like Gardenhire you can start figuring out who is going to captain the next playoff Sox team. I have no doubt it's not RV. Not sure what the answer is, but he's not it.

Changing the deck chairs probably won't help but it sure as hell can't hurt. They literally can't play any worse than last in runs, last in rs, and last in defense.

This cherry picking of teams that went on big runs needs to stop. It's like going back through hands of blackjack and concluding that it's always a good idea to hit on 18 because you drew a 21 a couple of times. How many times did you bust? For every team that goes on a big run after starting poorly there are 10 that just continue to suck. It's the exception, not the expectation. This team has been absolute horse s*** through the first month. I don't see any reason to expect a turnaround this isn't the Nationals' roster -- this is a flawed roster that needed every break to go there way. So far, outside of some nice pen performances and Avi hitting, they haven't had any breaks go there way. I think this is just teh baseball gods smiting Hawk down for thinking a good bullpen equals a good team. Hahahahahaha. Not when you can't get them the lead moron.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ May 4, 2015 -> 12:40 PM) if these guys like Robin as much as they say they do, they had better start to figure things out quickly. Eventually fan response at the gate will dictate a change is needed. As I said earlier I really don't think liking a manager is a goal or something positive at all. In fact, I'd rather guys respected the manager but hated his guts than a guy they love but maybe don't respect. I think they respect and like Robin but it's obvoius the team has a collective physcosis right now. I posted the Fangraphs stats last night. We have exactly two players above replacement. Something is rotten in that clubhouse it's almost unfathomable that everyone is this bad. I'm not much of a chemistry guy but something isn't right imo.

Until the org places a premium on defense series likes this one will continue to happen imo. Especially up the middle. Flowers is no great shakes either and Eaton has been shaky as well so far. Micah, well, he is what he is and that's mistake prone.

The way the org pumped him up he was bound to fail. They f***ing rush everyone of their guys it seems. He was nowhere near MLB ready and we saw it in spring. That Sanchez lingers in AAA while the Sox are close to last in every single defensive metric really pisses me off. Here's what should happen on the off day: Robin out Steverson interim Micah to AAA Sanchez up Gordon is new everyday 3b sanchez is new everyday 2b rodon to aaa ____ up The team needs defense BADLY. I don't think Gordon is any sort of answer but right now he can at least provide defense.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ May 3, 2015 -> 11:20 PM) I want Gardenhire. I've always liked him and would like him to be the next guy. With that said we have to balls up and fire RV first. something is rotten on the South Side: http://www.fangraphs.com/leaders.aspx?pos=...4&players=0

QUOTE (LDF @ May 3, 2015 -> 11:33 PM) i like martinez b/c he has fire burning just below a calm demeanor. i also like Todd Steverson b/c he already knows the team. plus he seems to be a good coach. I want Gardenhire for the rest of this year. Get a grizzled vet in there see if the guys follow his lead. I'm sorry but Jose is not a natural leader. Leader by example? Sure. But from his own admission he is not a vocal leader. The body language of this team is awful we all see that. Their is a leadership void, especially among the position players.

I'd like to see a former catcher manager the club to balance out Cooper's influence. Cooper seems to almost be the shadow manager. He certainly controls almost every aspect of the pitching staff and their training.

A manager has many priorities and being loved isnt one of them. Guys are too comfy.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ May 2, 2015 -> 11:36 PM) Six division championships merits respect. I agree. He can look guys in the eye, talk about winning, and winning pretty big, and they have to respect it. Not that it means much, but it's more than what RV brings. They got nothing to lose by changing it up.

The hitting coach is former Athletic, Todd Steverson. He was widely praised last year. It's not a coaching thing with this quad I think -- I think it's a leadership void mostly. The locker room has zero strong personalities and they lack leadership from the manager. Gardenhire would work fine the more I think about it. Just get someone that's won a little in here and see what happens. Nobody can look at Robin and think "this a guy that has managed some big games". At least Gardenhire has done that. For all the losing at the end Gardenhire is .507 for his career. FWIW, that's miles ahead of Robin.

QUOTE (greg775 @ May 2, 2015 -> 11:19 PM) I have one question to ask everybody and I would love a SERIOUS answer. Tell me please ... what harm would it be to axe Robin?? None. Nada. Zip. Zilch. Zero. You listed the reasons why he probably won't get fired however. Ugh.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 2, 2015 -> 10:57 PM) I agree and don't really see any reason why Robin should keep his job right now, but I do wonder if people got their expectations a little too high I certainly did.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ May 2, 2015 -> 09:57 PM) 3b, C, 2B were obvious holes CF was scrappy but S Pods on a good day 1b was due for some regression once the league got to know him DH always starts slow SS is old RF has talent but is unproven. Why are people so surprised the offense sucks? The ceiling was great but the floor was just as low. It was average last year and they improved at most positions, even factoring in regression from Jose and even Eaton. That it's been league worst so far this year is just completely inexplicable IMO. Like rolling a dice and getting snake eyes 3 times in a row. In fact, it's so variant that I think some of it lies with lack of mental preparation and readiness stemming from Robin's poor leadership.

I'd be fine with Gardenhire as interim manager. I'm not a huge fan of his small ball style twins clubs but at least they were usually fundamentally solid bunches even if they lacked talent. IMO a manager can at least impact the emotional readiness of a club and I think Gardenhire can do that and maybe, just maybe if they make a change before they are 10 back, they might turn it around some knowing that everyone is playing for their jobs.

So something that happened before probably half the posters here were born (including myself) is noteworthy and should make us feel better because...? I'm sorry if I offended you, seriously keep posting -- but I can't agree that something that happened once or twice in 100 years is reason for optimism. A better argument would be to go through every team that was dead last in run differential on May 2nd and see how many made the playoffs or won more than 87 games. I doubt it's more than a dozen, two dozen or so at absolute most. 95% of the time if you're one of the worst 3 teams in baseball after 25 games you're not going to turn it around.