chitownsportsfan

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 07:00 PM) I decided that because a) he's been a productive player for years, unlike Viciedo and b) he's lovely WTF do people have against De Aza man? He's been worth 6.8 bWAR, and 7.3 fWAR in his time with the Sox. For all that production he's cost about a total of 8 million. He was found off the scrap heap and acquired for nothing. I get that he looks awful at times but he's a solid player. Thinking otherwise is letting emotions get in the way of logic.

This Sox team sure does seem to have a bunch of idiot baserunners. WTF would convince Conor to steal?

QUOTE (Soxfest @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 06:48 PM) I want neither one on the 2015 roster. Hell, Viciedo wishes he was half the player De Aza is. De Aza actually has good years to his credit. Viciedo has zero good years.

QUOTE (flavum @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 06:43 PM) Viciedo f***ing sucks. Inconsistent, stupid, and terrible in the field. He can't come back next year. Yep, he's replacement level, you can't have him the LF starter on a team that wants to contend. Trade him for a low A lotto ticket and be done with it. Find a replacement in the offseason.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 06:42 PM) Huh? Big article making waves: http://www.foxsports.com/mlb/story/trader-...s-wonder-072814

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 29, 2014 -> 06:39 PM) This is why the Mariners wont be trading for Viciedo anytime soon You read the thing Jack Z today? They are a bunch of rascals and nobody wants to trade with them.

Viciedo plays a ball into a triple, drink.

Viciedo flies open on every single swing now. His swing is longer than Beckham's at this point. He looks awful up there.

Rod Allan totally sleeping on Q, he'd only lead the Tigers staff in fWAR, but he has a losing record so he must only be average.

QUOTE (Al Lopez's Ghost @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) Putting the ugh in Uggla! He's been awful, he personally cost Peavy a couple runs the other day. Sometimes I wonder what these front offices are thinking, wishcasting Uggla or Morales as anything other than useless replacement level players at this point is beyond silly. I guess every GM thinks that in the right situation an older talented" player will turn it around. Heck, KW did it with Griffey when he was washed up.

QUOTE (LDF @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 08:23 PM) I forget where I read this, sorry. sea was trying to low ball the sox for DV as some other teams. they don't value what he brings to the table as much as the sox will not give him away. DV is only 25 and how long has he played in the majors? his prime is yet to come. Interesting. My personal opinion regarding Viciedo is 2 WAR max potential. He'll just never hit or run well enough to make up for his awful defense in a meaningful way. He needs to slash like 280/330/450 to get even to 2 WAR and I just don't see it, his bat is a bad combo of a long swing with awful pitch recognition skills. Yea he generates great bat speed, but it's a long swing and he gets out of front of the ball way, way too often.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 07:46 PM) It would be 25 per 500. Doh. Funny when I posted that I was like uh, 10% times 500 that's 50 and then for some reason forgot to halve it. I blame all the s***ty leadoff hitters in the past.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) In all honesty, it is pretty unrealistic that Beckham is going to put a team over the top. Same to be said about DV. Danks might really help you get in and I can even see DV for a team with really bad offense, but when you take a step back, these are some of our weaker links (excluding Danks) and both DV and GB are below league average players (thus unless you have a major sieve you are filling, they aren't going to be major difference makers). As I keep telling people, odds of this team significantly upgrading its talent pool are pretty minimal through trades at the deadline. The valuable chips we have are staying put and the guys we would be interested in dealing have very little, if any value on the market, and for Sox, only value is if there is a young player you can plug-in their stead. If not, not much of a point and you might as well "try" to see how much closer you can get and I wouldn't be surprised if that is Hahn's approach. The exceptions to this rule are any veteran reliever we have (cause they are interchangeable and we have plenty of young arms (didn't say good) that we can give a chance to and normally you can get some sort of intriguing low level talent for them), Alexei (and only if you can net an impact, major league ready top 75 or so prospect and another 1 to 2 high upside guys), and Danks (not because you'll get good talent, but if you can clear his contract, it is worth it because worst case, his production in the FA market can be replaced at that price, however, that would not be a preferred approach, as you can most likely find better production out on the market or if you can acquire the right assets, internally, and thus, if you can swap his contract and get flexibility, you do it. I also expect Hahn to be quietly looking at acquiring assets, maybe getting involved as a 3rd team where we are giving another team assets for one of the younger assets getting moved (who might fill better needs then the guys we move). The Sox must have been asking for too much for Dayan because the Mariners traded for Morales, giving up a decent young bullpen arm in return. Viciedo is way more valuable than Morales I'm guessing the Sox were asking for a a B level prospect.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) Greg started it! Wite said that Beckham wasn't the biggest bust in franchise history because he actually managed to hold down a job in the MLB for a while, whereas many other high draft choices never even made it that far. Instead of reading anything, greg saw that wite had said something NOT negative about Beckham, and goes "well the SABR guys think Beckham is good, wtf is up with that?" So then we decided to see how long it would take for greg to actually read a post. Damn, this is some minor leaguers pranking Franceur level ish. Hearing Wimpie talk about Gordon was depressing. This guy has the most outsized defensive rep of anyone outside of Jeter. Gordon is a solid defender with a strong arm but his range is average and so are his hands.

Eaton seems to have very poor baserunning instincts for a guy that has good speed. His SB percentage is not good and he's constantly sliding headfirst needlessly (and recklessly). That said, he's getting on base nearly 36% of the time, over 500 PA that's 50 more times that Jose is batting with a man on versus the typical 310 OBP of Sox leadoff guys the last few years.

QUOTE (SCCWS @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:44 PM) Joe Maddon is a pretty good basball manager. He did the exact same thing the other night against the Red Sox. He pinch ran for James Loney but only after he got to 2nd base. The Red Sox color man ( Remy) noted that some managers will pull a starter for a runner from 2nd but not first late in a game. Pulling up some research on this topic led me to this: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/2012/9/27...ive-baserunning Interesting, but to really analyze the issue we'd need to know the % of times Jose goes from 1st to 3rd on a single verse say Garcia or Moises does. Judging from Jose's baserunning numbers on Fangraphs, it's not that often. He's not a plodder like Konerko thank god, but he's average at best. If I was the manager I would have just left him in there. I think pinch runners are over used personally.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:31 PM) This. You don't want to lose Abreu if possible, and if you do, you want the best possible odds for scoring. Scoring from 2nd is much easier than scoring from 1st. I disagree. Most runners non PK style will score form 2nd on a single. Most runners non Adam Eaton / Garcia / Moises on the Sox won't score from 1st on a double. If you are going to take Jose out, you freaking commit to it right away and get Garcia or Moises out there so they can score on a double from 1st. Again, not even saying that the decision was that awful -- but the thought process is deeply worrying to me.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 05:07 PM) I watched this and nobody "forgot" anything. That obvious noob stuff is once again based on outcomes that would have been different had the players actually come through. But hey, 1-2 games per manager, who really cares then. Yea, because no team has ever missed the playoffs by a game. Are you serious with this s***? I can't tell if you're trolling hard or what. Riddle me this: either Robin forgot to PR for Jose when he was on 1st or he changed his mind once he was in scoring position. The possible explanations are: Robin doesn't really understand baserunning leverage (not a good thing, hard to believe since he played professional) or he forgot, or he changed his mind. All 3 options are awful, pick one. Ok brainfart, but Robin has a lot of brain farts.

So he has zero trade value, go figure. Well, unless anyone wants to give up a non 40 man player for him just non tender him in the offseason, the roster spot is more valuable.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 04:49 PM) So the players dont perform? And its the managers fault. Please continue the analysis. How many games better should the Sox be without Ventura? Dude, I'm talking about obvious noob stuff like running out of pitchers, "forgetting" to PR for Jose and then PR for him when he's on 2B, bringing on a LHP for the platoon matchup and then having the opposing manager make the obvious move to then bring on a righty PH and batting Gordon Beckham and Ramirez 2nd while the guy with the highest OBP on the team can't get out of the bottom 1/3 (Conor). And to answer your question, maybe 1 or 2 games at most. As I've said so many freaking times: managers don't really mean s*** in baseball but that sure as heck you don't try and get the best you can.

I love Frank but it's pretty obvious the guy has a bit of a self esteem problem that manifests itself as bitterness at times. I realized though listening to his speech that he's a pretty poor kid from a pretty poor part of the world that rose to become a 1st ballot HOFer and maybe that's why he always had a little bit of a chip on his shoulder, maybe he at times was a little self conscious about his background and playing in Chicago kinda contributed to his being over looked at times in the national media.

Robin is one of the worst in game tacticians I've seen, that's for sure. He routinely gets late game subs completely wrong and everything from his lineups to when to use the platoon splits to make decsiions --are often head scratchily naive, like decisions you'd expect from a 1st year manager with no experience. Except that was 3 years ago. One thing Robin won't ever do is make waves off the field or throw a player under the bus unfairly. Now, those are points in his favor but I don't think there is any way it's enough to keep him around much after this year. Managers have a shelf life and pretty much any manager will get tuned out after awhile no matter how player friendly they are. Robin isn't seen as much of a hardass / discipline type so I can see the clubhouse getting away from him and then you're left with nothing really to defend him on.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) Yeah Sale's ceiling is HOF level, that's what I am getting at. He's been burned a few times staying with the same pitch at close speed & that sort of thing. If Sale can show the extreme stuff, extreme deception AND become more of a "mind f***" pitcher like a Maddux or Buehrle then watch the f*** out because those numbers are really going to turn into "video game" numbers. And I think that's exactly the path Sale is looking to take. It's all about getting the hitter, getting the out, getting the win with him. And I love it. Yea it's amazing how he is now pitching to contact at times to keep his pitch count down. He's learning to throw some ground balls early in the game when there is nobody on, rather than going for the knockout every time. But he still has the strikeout stuff when he needs it.

QUOTE (The Ultimate Champion @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 12:41 PM) I would LOVE to see what Sale could do with a brilliant catcher behind the plate. I think Flowers is ok, but put a guy back there that really knows the game and hitter tendencies at an extreme level & really that's what I think Sale needs. I think that because of Sale's experience now, if you put AJ behind the plate & Buehrle in the dugout next to him he'd take that next step. He's great but he's great mostly on stuff IMO. I think right now he's in that stage where he's learning to be a great pitcher with great stuff and IMO he probably needs a little extra help. I think Sale is the kind of guy who if he could develop a Maddux/Buehrle type of approach/mentality (and I think that's what he's trying to do) would be capable of putting up an ERA right around or even below 2.00, that's how great his stuff/deception is. Sale is a pretty special player but I still think he has room for improvement left. His absolute ceiling is otherwordly & I agree with the poster who said we're fortunate to be able to watch this guy every 5 days. And again in terms of overall ability, I could actually see myself picking up a baseball card 10 years from now, flipping it over, and looking at a single season of something like 220IP with an ERA of 1.80 or so and a WHIP under 1.00, that's what his absolute ceiling is IMO. He's that dominant. I really don't think there is much he can improve on other than maybe continuing to refine his command and perhaps learning to "pitch backwards" at times. I mean, he's pitching at a historically great level and if he keeps it up for 10 more years he'll be a no doubt HOFer. Kershaw is on pace to be one of the top 5 pitchers of all time, if Sale is only top 20 when he retires I think we'll take that.

QUOTE (Feeky Magee @ Jul 28, 2014 -> 01:00 PM) There's plenty of peripherals which are league and park-adjusted, and Kershaw blows Sale and everyone else right out of the water Eh, it's pretty close. Kershaw is basically slightly better on K%, GB% and K/BB ratio, but you can make an argument that facing the weak NL west and the weaker league in general helps in ways that don't get park / league adjusted. Basically IMO there is a clear tier, with: Kershaw Felix Sale ---- every else the differences in quality between Sale, Kershaw and Felix are almost indistinguishable but gun to my head I'd go: Kershaw, Sale, Felix. Chris Sale is really f***ing good however you slice it and we are lucky to watch him pitch every 5 days or so.