Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 08:50 AM) So making a 1 game WC is worth at least $155 million now? LMAO, that isn't anywhere near what you post in every White Sox related post. For the Cubs, with their ballpark situation? Taking them back to filling that place plus the ticket brokers plus their new ad space plus yearly ticket price increases? Yeah, I think getting a wild card birth for them would be monstrous. Especially if they win and get the extra 3 game series. They're up about 3000 ticket sales over last year but unless they shrank their park in the renovations they have room for another 5000/game. Compile that over multiple years and that's Lester-level money just off the ticket sales... And that's without mentioning the fact that people are going to be tuning into their games on TV in couple years before their TV deal renews.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 20, 2015 -> 07:25 AM) It is already a dreadful contract. He has had flashes of being an ace, but he has had a lot more flashes of being mediocre to bad than we ever saw from him. And now that the first base thing has been exposed, it has become even worse. If they play Pittsburgh in a wildcard playoff, they are going to steal 50 bags against him If they make the playoffs this year, frankly ahead of what seemed to be their expected schedule, that quick playoff appearance will probably be worth so much good press that it'll pay for Lester's contract on its own.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 09:48 PM) We had two division titles in four years, including a world series title. It didn't keep people showing up then, and it sure isn't helping now. In 2008 they still drew >30k a game. That's pretty unfair.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 11, 2015 -> 09:14 AM) The Animas River mine spill in Colorado is pretty awful. So, just finished an article on this spill for the outreach page I write for. My opinion now is that this spill is not a scandal, but instead the real scandal is what is legal. The spill reports constantly say ~3 million gallons of contaminated water spilled but there is no context for that number. Is 3 million gallons a lot? Well, this particular mine reportedly is leaking about 200+ gallons per minute, which translates to 3 million gallons leaked in a period of under 2 weeks. However, this is not the only mine at this site, there are something in the range of 5-7 mines on this site all of which are leaking substantially ever since the water treatment site at the last operational mine shut down in 1996. The largest 2 flow rates are at 300 gallons per minute. If you total up the leak rate from all the mines, a 3 million gallon spill represents the amount leaked into Cement Creek from this one site in about 2-3 days. Cement Creek feeds into the Animas River, the Animas has a flow rate about 3x that of Cement Creek. So, when this burst happened, it was a sudden flow of 2-3 days worth of what flows into that river normally. That will still do damage to the ecosystem in the river, but it's not a major loss. Downstream it entered the San Juan River system and the pulse of dissolved solids in the San Juan River was not even the largest pulse of dissolved solids in the last month. Large rain events across the basin cause larger pulses into that river system and into lake Powell to than this spill. Cement Creek, also, is on average more contaminated than this mine effluent. I found measurements from Cement Creek showing that it typically had a pH of about 4.1 all the way back in 1997; the lowest pH measured in the Animus after this spill was about 4.5, and other contaminants like copper follow the same pattern - even more concentrated in the normal Cement Creek than in the Animas after this flood. Basically, this flood was a sudden release of 2-3 days worth of what has reached this river every single day since the mid-1990s from these abandoned mines.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 08:21 PM) I agree that it's worth looking into. Hanley can rake. He still can. I'd take him if Boston paid most of the bill and put him at DH. The "hell no" and "no way" and "absolutely not" statements can't really be taken seriously at this point when the offense is as bad as it is. I need to see the deal before I really comment one way or another. I'd be more willing to consider it if people weren't bringing up things like "Quintana" for him. If we're going to take him it's because Boston is dropping him for much less than what he's worth. While you say "he can still rake", he's been a negative value player this year and that can't be ignored. There is a solid chance he'll recover next year, but there is also a solid chance that his bat will slowly decline from here while his glove gets worse from here. If Boston was throwing in lots of money then I could maybe be convinced to give up the kind of deal for him the White Sox gave up for Samardzija, a deal where we sacrifice more of our thin minor league depth for him, or maybe clear out something like Robertson, but I'm not going to give up top flight pieces even if Boston is chipping in a lot of money, given that risk, and Boston IMO isn't likely to dump him for such little value that I'd be interested unless they are 100% convinced he's finished.

QUOTE (CanOfCorn @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 05:50 PM) How 'bout the fact that it would probably take Q? So, then the Sox would lose Shark AND Q? And replace them with who? Obviously, Shark is probably gone, but replacing two starters is not the best idea. I can't think of any situation where I would do a deal centered around Q and Hanley Ramirez being exchanged. I don't think I'd do that if the Red Sox were paying Hanley's entire salary. If I picked which of the 2 I thought would perform better over the next 5 years I'd absolutely go with Quintana - he hasn't had the peak years of Hanley but he's much younger and seems to be vastly more consistent whereas Hanley has a much larger downside risk (see this year) and Quintana's salary isn't a big deal.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 05:17 PM) Yes, they surrendered two draft picks for the privilege. And 4 players, so 6 different players who would otherwise be in our organization. And then people who say that we didn't give up all that much will simultaneously say how we don't have that much depth in our system, or lament that we can't bring positions up to tolerable performance levels. And that's on top of other decisions not made...things like "we didn't trade Alexei last year" when hindsight shows that to be a mistake as well. So even if we didn't get a top of the league return for him, there's 7+ layers we surrendered for the privilege of 2015. And that doesn't even count the opportunity-cost of not giving innings to EJ in the last month when he really should have been up.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 05:07 PM) There is nothing very, very, very clear about the bolded. Please elaborate. I haven't the slightest clue what you are trying to get across. The White Sox went with the middle ground - trying to compete without giving up their best long-term assets, but while sacrificing some depth and money. In the process they utterly failed. The end result is they have absolutely moved closer to wasting Sale and Abreu's best seasons, because they just wasted one of them at the very least. That's what you said the risk was of slowly trying to develop assets, and they did exactly that while trying to find "near future" assets. I think that's a very strong message from 2015. They spent a lot of assets on this season, got incredibly lucky with health, like unbelievably lucky with the health of their lineup, and they've barely improved from 2014. They have absolutely increased the chances of wasting their best years because they just wasted one.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 04:52 PM) Then they should be trading their best mlb assets to further that goal, because otherwise you are wasting them on mediocre, meaningless seasons. There are 3 paths to go down at this juncture: 1) Recognize you have Sale/Abreu/Rodon and push all your chips into the middle and try to win over the next few years. Trade anything from the minor leagues that isn't bolted down to try and take advantage of the elite talent you have currently on the big league roster; 2) Continue building from the ground up, recognizing that you need to develop position players to balance out the young pitching you've been developing. Hope you can do this quickly enough to find a window before Sale/Abreu/Rodon leave via FA or their skills begin to erode; and 3) Balance the present with the future, recognizing you have elite talent on the roster now, but not enough. Move assets deemed not part of your "future" to bring in assets that can contribute now or in the near future. It's pretty clear that our FO chose the third path. The risk of taking the path you're advocating for is that by the time this all comes together, you may have wasted Sale and Abreu's best years, and some of Rodon's best years. At some point, you've got to recognize what you've got and give these guys an opportunity to make the postseason. Um...I think it's very, very, very clear based on 2015 that what you just said is the risk of doing the 2nd option...building from the ground up and then in the process wasting Sale and Abreu's best years....is absolutely a risk of the 3rd way that you ascribe to the front office as well. In fact, if it keeps the roster caught in the middle and relies on luck to push them into a wild card role, there's a decent case to be made that has the highest chance of wasting Sale and Abreu's best years because it is likely the slowest path to producing a top of the league team even if a roll of the dice could push it to be the fastest way to a wild card spot.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 04:02 PM) Hopefully Kenny will take the job. He and everybody hit magic that one year which unfortunately played out to be a fluke. It was a glorious fluke but a fluke. KW needs to go. I don't think it was a "fluke", I think Kenny remains a solid judge of baseball talent (see Jose Abreu) and that was a key part of him being able to build the team in the 2005 year. I think that Kenny moved from that technique - building a ballclub through shrewd acquisition and development of undervalued talent - to a strategy that is going in the wrong direction, as more resources became available to him. He went from signing an undervalued Japanese 2b and a RF coming off injury and a catcher no one wanted to paying big time prices for guys in trades and on the FA market, a strategy that minimized his own skills. He was able to do that because more resources became available (money) after the WS win and because he continued trying to "win now" at all costs. He no longer could take time to develop a pitcher like Jon Garland, who had 3 mediocre full seasons following 2 mediocre part seasons before he snapped off his solid 2005, because he couldn't spend 3 years turning a guy into a useful piece.

QUOTE (OmarComing25 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 02:56 PM) Any recent comparable deals so we know what to expect? It's probably going to be something in the range of $22-25 million per year, isn't it? Assuming he continues this year at this pace, he's going to hit FA having been a 20 fWAR player over the last 4 years, topping out at 6.5 fWAR in 2012. His only down year out of that span he put up 3.4 fWAR but that was also an injury shortened season. When Robinson Cano signed his 10/$240 deal, he was worth 23 fWAR during the previous 4 seasons. No injury lost season, but he signed that at his age 31 season. When Prince Fielder signed his 9/$214, he was closer to Heyward's age, starting his age 27 season, but he was only worth 15 fWAR the previous 4 seasons. Heyward turned 26 two weeks ago. He's younger than Fielder was when he signed for 9/$214, he's easily outperformed Fielder over the past 4-5 seasons, his performance is closer to Cano's and he's ~5 years younger than what Cano was. That brief exercise of comparing where Heyward's contract should fall relative to those two just scared me enough that I don't want to look any more. On top of those numbers contracts have continued to grow since those examples were signed. From that you wind up with an argument that he should easily beat Cano's money.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 02:44 PM) One nice thing is that if Tim Anderson can play run neutral defense and slash 290/320/430 with 25/30 SB he's gonna be a 3 WAR SS. The position is that weak right now. A .750 OPS, neutral defense, and strongly positive on the basepaths? That sounds like >3 to me right there.

Corresponding move for Utley? or something else? (actually important for us since we're playing them)

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 02:41 PM) who is/was worth $15 million... That's it? I thought he got a helluva lot more than that out of the sheer number of usages of his image.

QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 01:58 PM) and you are right re bold, but according to the chart above, they are right in the middle of the packing according to the rankings. The White Sox are extremely weak compared to the extremely weak positions.

QUOTE (LDF @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 01:37 PM) theory wise and using old school tech. i would say the dh, 3b, and rf in that order, should be up at least equal to or better 1b in production. Around MLB, 1b is the best producing position on average in baseball, ~.780-.790 ish OPS. RF, DH, and 3b are the next set of positions, they're in the .750-.760 range. LF is a bit lower, then the 2b, SS, and C positions are very weak.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:56 PM) You keep on saying its all a joke. I am not joking about it. I hope that pedophiles get raped when they go to prison. I have a family member who was raped and molested by another individual repeatedly. All that he put her through throughout her life and to what she is still dealing with now and I am supposed to worry about society and our perspective on rape in jails? The jokes are at the very bottom of my list of worries and to what I am going to stand for. Let me say this one more carefully then in response. While I understand your grief and your personal issues, I feel strongly that it devalues us all when we treat rape as ok under any circumstances. I will understand that not everyone will find this to be a major issue. I feel it is more important to point out precisely because it's difficult for people to stand up for the rights of people who already broke the law once. People may get annoyed with my stance on this issue and this is not the first time I've taken this stance here at ST. I do so because it's not exactly an issue people are going to be passionate about, most people are happy to ignore it and, as you note, some people will have experiences that make it particularly personal for them going the other way. The fact that people are willing to look the other way is why it happens. Even if it's understandable that people are willing to look the other way, I feel we're a worse people for having it happen at all. In this case I can point at the U.S. bill of rights and say "this is wrong" and "two wrongs do not make something right". So even if I'm never going to get you to take an interest in this issue, I feel prison rape is something I don't want happening to anyone with my support, even my tacit acknowledgment. I'll leave it at that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:58 PM) So you are OK, and not embarrassed or sickened by punishment basically being determined by the quality of representation one can afford, instead of what they have done. Oh I am. I'd count that as a problem worth fixing as well, hence why it got included in that statement.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:44 PM) You have lost it. Comparing what he done to the children and what may happen to him while he is in prison because he put himself there because of his own actions (getting off easy no matter what happens to him compared to how he has ruined young lives) are completely different situations. I see that it is pointless in arguing with you about it though. We are not going to agree on this. Do you believe the 8th amendment is a mistake and that rape is an appropriate thing for the United States to be doing as punishment even unofficially? The fact that people defend this drives me nuts. Put him in jail for as long as his well paid legal team will allow. Rape is not a punishment. It is barbaric and it is something the country shouldn't be doing to anyone. It's not a joke and we're worse people because we treat it as such.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:36 PM) Nope that is sick to think that way. We should have the decency as a society to not think about those children and focus on making sure everyone has a comfortable stay at all of our fine correctional facilities. GMAB. "Not being f***ing raped" = comfortable? BS. Would you use those same words to describe the way he treated the children? I mean sexual abuse is a joke and comfortable right?

QUOTE (flavum @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:21 PM) Am I going to feel sorry individually for Fogle if he finds himself getting hurt in prison? Probably not. I would also generally agree with that statement that I will not feel bad for him. I do, however, feel embarrassed if and when our country allows it to happen, and the fact that it's such a common joke really makes me sick to my stomach. Fair enough?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:18 PM) I still fail to see how the past offseason created inflexibility in regards to the framework of this team over the next few years. The whole purpose of the direction they took was to balance today with tomorrow. While I was not a fan of the LaRoche signing, it won't cripple us. The other deals are not blocking anyone who's knocking down the door at Charlotte, with the possible exception of Johnson, who can be brought up in less than 2 weeks. I just can't understand why the fact that they took a shot on '15 and missed has some devastating consequences for '16 and '17. I think this statement looks particularly incorrect now that we know we won't get anyone close to MLB-ready back for Samardzija and now that we've seen how much of a difference "a little depth at a few positions" made for this roster already this season. When that statement was being written last winter to me everyone added "oh and we'll get players back for Samardzija when we move him" and that's now disappeared from the list.

QUOTE (shipps @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 12:16 PM) balta you should stop yourself. You would be a lonely dude in that protest line. And frankly that's embarrassing too. I know there's nothing I can do about it, but I consider those jokes sad and I consider people who think "If a person was raped that would be great!" to be pretty darn sick too. And I'll keep saying it every time people think how hilarious it is.

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 11:44 AM) If we credit Hahn with the moves since October '12, then you have to say he's had some winners and losers but it's also fair to say that he deserves more time. IF Rick Hahn wanted more time then he shouldn't have put himself in a position where his results could and should so readily be judged based on the 2015 season. He's the one who spent big money. He's the one who traded for a pitcher a year away from FA. He's the one who said he had a roster ready to compete. He's the one who on July 31 said "If we keep playing like this we'll be right there in the end" while not making any move to build the team for now or the future. I feel it entirely appropriate to judge Rick Hahn's performance based on his own words. He set the standard on July 31 that he should be held by.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 19, 2015 -> 11:53 AM) who cares? Jared deserves it No. No one deserves that and any human being with a shred of dignity would think the fact that we allow it and consider it normal in our prisons to be disgusting and pathetic. Doesn't matter what they did, it's sickening that we allow it and even more pathetic that we think it's a standard haha funny joke.