Balta1701

Just got the email from the White Sox saying this deal is now officially done and signed.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 05:09 PM) I still say some of the park effects get impacted by how good the home teams offense and pitching staff is. If you had a great offense and lousy pitching staff, you will likely see some skewed park effects (albeit I am sure they are normalizing the results of the above average offense / pitching staff vs. other parks but there could still be issues in that process). You also have other factors such as how well various teams are built for their home park, etc. Every place calculates these factors a little bit differently but when you go through all of them, the cell still comes out roughly the same - above average, sometimes in the right years close to the best park for hitters, entirely driven by HR hitting.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 04:48 PM) Re: home/road splits I'm not sure if the numbers would completely back this, but I think it's somewhat of a myth that the Cell is a hitter's park. It's a great park to hit home runs, but it's not a great Park for line drive hitters. This is somewhat true except where you said it's a "myth" that the Cell is a hitters park. It's almost always an above average hitters park, but if the wind and weather are right during a season it can get down close to average. Its been as much as the 2nd best park for producing runs in baseball in recent seasons, and IIRC as low as 10th or 15th, can't remember the bottom. Most seasons it's top 8 for runs, so it's definitely a hitters park overall. But you are completely correct in that the reason why it is a hitters park is that it favors home runs strongly. It's not a particularly strong park for doubles or triples or singles, but home runs have a big enough impact that the cell is a solid hitters park.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:56 PM) So one HOF-calibur player. Who put up a worse OPS his last year in Safeco than Ackley did last year.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:49 PM) I just think Viciedo's potential is a better bet than Ackley. Are there examples of guys who were bad for several years in Safeco (before they moved the fences in ) who went on to much better things elsewhere? The greatest example of that I can possibly give is Adrian Beltre. Average OPS in Seattle during his 5 year contract was .759, in 2009 his OPS was .683. He went to Boston and Texas and immediately put up a .899 OPS over the next 5 years. There's a good chance that Safeco is the reason why he's not looked at as a sure fire hall of famer right now.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:46 PM) I'd be disappointed with Ackley as our starting LFer, but happy if he was the 2B. Defensive position matters when evaluating the bat. The average LF in MLB put up a .723 OPS last year, the average 2b put up a .683 OPS. He'd be slightly better at 2b given that but what really matters to my eyes is that Ackley hopefully is >>>>> Viciedo and Ackley maybe > or maybe = Sanchez/Johnson. The upgrade from Viciedo to an average player is huge, the difference between missing the playoffs by a couple games and reaching the play in game. The upgrade from Sanchez/Johnson to an average player hopefully will be small or maybe even nonexistant.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:33 PM) Ackley wasn't trending up when he was Viciedo's age. People here seem to take great interest in players who are very similar to players they hated when they played for the White Sox.l When he was age 25, he was putting up a .660 OPS in Safeco again during his 2nd big league season following a .622 OPS the previous year. By your standards, a .659 OPS in one year and a .660 OPS the next year is "trending up", so that change for Ackley at the age Viciedo currently is at is an ungodly unbelievably skyrocketing improvement.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:33 PM) If the Sox traded Viciedo for Ackley I wouldn't cancel the DirectTV, but if they said Ackley was going to be the regular LF or 2B, I would think this trying to win isn't really trying to win. Ackley would be a big upgrade over Viciedo based on what each of them did last year, that's enough for me. We'd go from having a vastly below average player at LF to a slightly below average or maybe even average player counting both offense and defense. I'd be totally ok with that.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:20 PM) I said he hit better on the road than at home for his career. My statement was accurate. There have been a growing number of White Sox starting to have this problem. I know Ackley wouldn't have it. That's a given. Your statement was accurate and completely meaningless, literally .001 points of OPS. It's the kind of statement no one wanting to have an honest discussion would ever make, because anyone who actually looked at the numbers would laugh at it.

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:22 PM) They have to do something about left field, unless the Samrdizja thing was just a song and dance to show the fans "they are trying" As it stands now, Viciedo is 4th OF Danks is 5th OF and that is a bad situation. I'd flip him for Ackley if that's the best they can do. i agree with LF being the main priority and Ackley there would be a solid upgrade, which is why I can't figure out why the Mariners would do it.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 03:03 PM) Beckham actually hit better on the road than at home during his career, and this board for the most part, pretty much wanted Beckham gone for the past 3 or 4 seasons. "Not able to hit well in a hitters park" is a pretty darn bad thing. Edit: now I actually just looked. You really thought I wouldn't look at the career number: Career: home/road splits for Gordon beckham Home: .681 OPS Road: .682 OPS. He was terrible at home in 2014, he was pretty much evenly weak in 2013, he was terrible on the road in 2012, he was equally rotten in both in 2011. Stronger at home again than on the road in 2010. Basically the only year your statement is accurate is 2014.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:51 PM) You actually went there? Things your post missed: 1. Gordon Beckham's career OPS is higher than Ackley's, however Beckham's is trending the wrong way. His OPS not counting his rookie year is .660, worse than Ackley's career mark by a good amount. 2. Gordon Beckham's 2014 was terrible. .618 OPS overall, .598 with the White Sox. Ackleys was .692 last year. That alone would be a huge upgrade, even if you didn't consider: 3. Seattle is one of the worst hitting parks in the majors, thus "Beckham and Ackely put up similar OPS numbers" means Ackley was doing a much, much better job, and if you put him in a non-non-seattle ballpark he'd be putting up much better numbers than Beckham. I'm not sure I'd put him at 2b and call him an excellent fit either, but that's how deeply flawed your post was.

I can't believe people wrote this post without actually considering how Noesi's season went. Yes his ERA and FIP were poor, but somehow everyone has forgotten that: 1. His ERA was 0.35 runs lower if all you do is focus on the time he was with the White Sox 2. Focusing on the time he was with the white sox alone isn't smart either, in his first 4 starts with the White Sox they still needed to stretch his arm out so they left him out to die in the 6th inning several times while exhausted (ERA in those starts; 5.35) I posted this version of average fWAR by pitcher's spot in the rotation in the advanced stats forum earlier this year. You can quibble with the exact numbers a bit, but what they come up with is that on average, a #4 starter is worth about 1.5 fWAR and a #5 starter is worth about 0. In other words, if all that happened was those guys repeating their 2014 seasons, we may have a below average #4 starter, but we have an above average 5th starter, to the point where we're league average in our 4-5 starters. And again, that's assuming no improvement from Noesi, which there's a good chance of happening in fWAR just by getting more innings, no improvement from Danks another year removed from surgery, and no point where Rodon replaces them. And on top of that, we should very likely have above average #2 and #3 starters and if Chris Sale doesn't hit the DL we very likely have above average #1, #2, and #3 starters. Noesi and Danks are not problems with this team outside of Danks being overpaid for what he produces. If you can move Danks, great, but especially factoring in Rodon, this team is well set up to have an above average starting staff. That could change if someone gets hurt obviously, but a new #4 starter isn't going to make up for Chris Sale getting hurt no matter what we do.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:26 PM) If you have a compete nt 2B, and have $240 million floating around, and a bunch of holes, you don't blow $240 million on a 2B. Gordon Beckham---garbage .244/.306/.374 Dustin Ackley---perfect fit .245/.309/.366 LMAO If Gordon Beckham could catch the ball, he'd be an upgrade over Viciedo in the OF.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 02:23 PM) Is it better or worse for your replacement to make a lot of money? I think it would be worse if your replacement was a guy who was low paid. Like say, trying to replace Viciedo with Ackley?

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) Unless they do something big, they are going to take a huge hit next season. IF we wanted to look at them from the optimistic side, don't they still have a lot of guys with room to grow too? They've lost Shields but they've got young pitching pretty close to ready and other guys who seem like they could still get better right?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 11:43 AM) I think the "ticking time bomb" thing was just a cover for a lot of the real motivation, anyway, which is that a substantial number of people do not actually have a problem with torturing other people (or having their government do it in their name). If I were running a media organization, every person who said it would save lives or wasn't torture would be asked if they would support having a US Soldier rectally force fed.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 09:54 AM) I think they will go under slot in the 1st round actually. They lose the ability to spend that bonus $$ for the 2nd round selection. Probably somewhere around $1.5 million. This would be my guess also, if they grab a college senior who they can sign under slot in the first that means they can save a bit and go over slot somewhere in later rounds to make up for having no 2nd rounder.

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:55 AM) Dustin Ackley gets my vote. I still can't believe the Mariners would, in succession: 1. Think that Viciedo, who was worse than Ackley last year in every phase of the game, is a better option than Ackley 2. Take on $1.5 million ish to swap Viciedo for Ackley 3. Actually go into next year with Viciedo taking up a roster spot 4. Actually look at Viciedo as a plausible starter. I just can't figure it out. I wouldn't do that trade from the Mariners side and if the Ms ever would have considered saying yes then Ricky should have gotten it done already.

QUOTE (TheFutureIsNear @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:08 AM) Ok how about Gordon Beckham 2.0? That work better for you? Either way he's a bench player and the fact that anybody is discussing him as a starting LF for the White Sox is absolutely ridiculous. Ackley would be a guy who we wouldn't be asking to win us a title, we'd be asking him to be "not a godawful corner OF" because being "not terrible" at the corner OF spot would be a huge, huge upgrade over last year. The guys we'd be asking us to win the title would be Abreu, Sale, Q, Smardzija, Garcia, Ramirez, Robertson, etc. Right now, the corner OF on our roster is actually in the way.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 10:06 AM) A team like Boston would empty their farm system for him. They just spent a ton on Sandoval and currently have Ortiz DHing for them. Who's moving where?

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 10, 2014 -> 09:27 AM) Good sign there's mutual interest from the Sox and Mariners. Get it done. I can't believe they still think he's worth that money, and I can't believe the Sox haven't gotten rid of him yet if anyone, anywhere will take him.

Obviously could have used that $4 million now if it was available.

Rectal force feeding is exactly what it sounds like. Congratulations America, you can stand proudly in favor of the years your country spent performing rectal force feeding.