Balta1701

QUOTE (TRU @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 05:49 PM) Danks has not been solid, hes not striking people out and hes walking too many. Its going to catch up to him eventually. All we had was a small sample of Johnson at the major league level. I didn't think he would be outright terrible but I also didn't think he was a lock to be a good starter either. Paulino was a huge question mark, there was no reason what so ever to think a guy who hadn't pitched in the majors since 2012 was going to come in and be a solid contributor to the rotation. I agree that thinking it was going to be horrific wasn't on anyone's mind, but its not shocking that the pitching has been struggling thus far. We had a patch work bullpen and only two starting pitchers who you would say are rock solid reliable. It also would not be shocking at all if this rotation (and bullpen) managed to improve during the season. In fact, with 2 guys coming off injury and a couple rookies as well just in the starters, that's kind of exactly what we should have hoped for.

QUOTE (chw42 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 05:22 PM) And Shields is nowhere near Tanaka, Kershaw, or Greinke. He's a 4.5 WAR type pitcher who can be considered an ace on most teams. Age also plays a big part. The three guys you mentioned are all at least 2 years younger than Shields. When Greinke signed his contract, he was 29. I'd be willing to give a guy with 4.5 WAR talent (which Grienke does and then some) 6 years and $123 million at 29. I'd be very hesitant to do the same for a guy who's 32. Let's also note that for a long term deal Lester is on the market as well at 3 years younger. With him and Scherzer that means at least 2 teams will be throwing around $150 million+ deals for pitchers, that could eat into Shields's market somewhat as well.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 04:53 PM) let see it this way, 2 yrs ago, sox had an idea of paulie and his expiring contract in mind, no-one on the radar to take over. sox drafted Ravelo and thought with his athleticism, his eye and hand coordination and the hopes that he can develop power, they the sox org moved him to 1b. with ref to the "silly" comment you made in baseball that has been done many times .... why else would the sox think of doing it. Um, because they judged he wasn't an adequate defender at 3rd?

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 05:03 PM) drafting and giving over-slot money is there and been done. per the CBA after the first 10 rounds, bonuses of overslot count against the budget of the first 10 rounds -- there are ways to work around the former issue. Even though it's the first year of the new draft rules, there were already multiple organizations finding creative ways to redistribute the risk and money allotted to them. For a few hundred thousand dollars yes. For a contract equivalent to the entire draft allotment for the team with the #4 pick, the math flat out does not work. (Also the bolded text with no link that I can't find anywhere by doing a google search doesn't help much)

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 04:46 PM) Max Scherzer is the clear #1, but after that, Shields is probably #2. Lester #3 then?

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 04:00 PM) regardless of where he is pick, boras will ask for his value and not where he was pick. boras has done this already, with other other picks. But he simply can't. You can't get around the new draft spending rules that easily any more. If he falls 1 spot because of Boras, he either goes back to school another year, potentially costing himself millions down the road, or he gets drafted 1 spot later, costing him well over $1 million right away. If he falls past the first few picks, then there becomes literally no reason to draft him because he coudln't be signed.

QUOTE (LDF @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 04:32 PM) I will play devil advocate, when the sox moved him to 1b, the org did not have a good prospect for 1b. now we have Jose A and that changes the pict. now we have Keon Barnum and R Ravelo vying for the backup role. hey DH is open and who will man that position ? Moving a guy to 1b from 3b because the team doesn't have 1b options would be an incredibly silly move. Let's just say it this way. Maybe there's a chance some people are right and Ravelo could move back to 3b, but he's in the White Sox organization and the White Sox organization gave up on him as a fielder at 3b. It therefore seems extremely unlikely that they're going to decide to move him back there after giving up on him at 3rd. That's their call and even if they're wrong, they're the ones who get to make it.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 02:48 PM) They have such little pitching depth and such payroll flexibility that there's little chance that a free agent starter was gambling with the future. Putting stress on Sale to cover for a tired bullpen is really gambling the future. This team's management would put Sale out there until he was done every day anyway. We've seen that for 3 years in a row.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 02:47 PM) It is an incredibly slippery slope when something you say in your personal residence in private gets you in this type of trouble. This is not someone going out and getting on a soap box and making a public stance. In fact, there have been some organizations coming out and saying that while Stern might have voiced these concerns and issues in private, in public he has made great contributions to minorities, etc (now this is all based upon donations he has made). What he said was wrong and he is paying the price but I think the person who released the tapes should rot too because they are not innocent either. However, this really isn't the first time with STerling and there is far too much smoke, etc, and the NBA can not ignore what is out there and Silver made absolutely the right move given all of the facts and I really commend him for this. I personally thought if it was anything less then this, you'd probably see the Clippers players (or at least certain players) protest by not playing. In fact, I could have seen other teams in the league join in on the protest if it was something like a slap on the wrist. The NBA acted swift and appropriately. I had to reread this...Sterling?

So serious question. If "My agent is Scott Boras" is legitimately pushing a guy down in the draft, why on Earth would a high draft pick use Scott Boras as his agent? You could switch to Boras before you get to free agency if you really want to follow that biggest money possible path, and you're costing yourself several million dollars if you could be a #1 pick and you go#3.

QUOTE (bmags @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 02:40 PM) We're talking about Donald Sterling. I don't think he cares. You might think that intuitively, but there's always been this creepy side where his face almost constantly appears in the LA Times citing whatever award he's getting for giving some foundation a few thousand dollars. His companies spend a lot of money on his reputation otu there.

QUOTE (chitownsportsfan @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 02:07 PM) You're right, nobody is going to give up anything above a C level prospect for Dunn, Downs, Lindstrom. Alexei however and De Aza could possibly net a top 10 org guy, especially Alexei as he probably has a few 2-3 WAR type seasons left at SS, even if he's declining. With the relative log jam the Sox have in the minors up the middle Ramirez is probably a likely trade candidate, given the return he could net is higher than most of the other tradeable Sox. I'm assuming they aren't going to trade Gillaspie or Viciedo, given their contracts, age and current production. You'd be hard pressed to get fair value back for either. As for Dunn, I'd be very happy if the Sox could unload him in early July for a lottery ticket and pro-rated salary relief, which would be around 5-6 million I believe. If he continues to hit around an 900 OPS, that shouldn't be a problem, but that's a big if. Nobody wants the 220/330/450 version of Adam Dunn, not at his salary, even if it's only a rental. Like I said, outside of Alexei, those guys are cheap fillins who teams can use to cover up holes that appear on their roster during the year. I'm not expecting a lot back for them, but what I do think we could get back is AAA-level relievers who could really do a lot to strengthen our bullpen depth.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 02:12 PM) I understand that, but I mean, he never made these comments publicly. The guy could be the biggest asshole ever, and appears to be up there, but I just have a hard time accepting the validity of this sort of punishment for something that was said in the privacy of his own home with only him and his significant other in the room. He should absolutely be strong armed out of the league, there is no question about that, but it's quite unfair to have private words used against you because someone secretly recorded and then released the conversation Based on California law, he might be able to make a case against the person who released the recording if the recording was made without his permission/knowledge, but that's it. And the question of course is...if you're a billionaire real estate owner, do you want that case being on the front page of the LA Times for 6 months?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 10:21 AM) That is true, but if Hahn can manage to get Shields and Davis, then we wouldn't technically need Johnson. Rienzo, Carroll, Surkamp can all fill that #5 void. I think Erik Johnson, Carlos Sanchez, Trayce Thompson can net Grandal. If I were the Padres...that's a fair deal for him but it's not the kind of deal I want. I want a clear top prospect, not a pile of mid-level guys.

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 10:03 AM) I definitely agree with this, even though it's obvious. I still would love to sign James Shields in the off season, and use these glut of infield prospects to acquire a catcher like Grandal. Reminder, with all the contracts expiring, I believe Sox will only be around 48 million in payroll next season. I still think it's going to be difficult for the White Sox to put together a package for a high-demand player like Grandal because they don't have a lot of high-ceiling prospects at their higher levels right now. Even if their pitchers at AA turn things around in a few weeks that's still true. The guys who really might draw major interest as a centerpiece are guys like Danish, Tim Anderson, and they're at lower levels where they're not going to have the same value they would once they reach AA. Most teams that are on the rebuilding side like the Astros and the Padres aren't going to be after "multiple average middle infield prospects", they're going to be pushing for a top flight guy in return to send cheap, high-demand talent out. And I still am hesitant to say what exactly our needs will be in the offseason. Last week it looked like we were starved for pitching, but things are really changing quickly in terms of needs. If Rienzo can cover a back of the rotation slot and somehow Johnson finds whatever it was he's lost, then the rotation goes right back to looking full.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 09:36 AM) That's just a whirlwind of terrible news for any stock JPMorgan thinks that would be an easy Tuesday.

QUOTE (JohnCangelosi @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 09:53 AM) A better question is actually what will we have worthwhile of selling at the deadline that is EXPENDABLE? If we are planning on competing in 2015, trading Johnny Danks or Alexei doesn't make sense. It seems that Beckham is a lost cause right now and worth absolutely nothing. I am not sure what we can get for Dunn even if he is able to keep up at this pace at the deadline- it seems most people think the ceiling there is some salary relief and a Leury Garcia ceiling type of player. What other pieces do we have that can result in getting the deals we saw over the offseason where we focused on young, exciting and talented ball players? People have said Beckham looks better the past few days, we'll see if it's believable. The Sox actually have a whole lot of potentially moveable guys. Alexei is at the top of the list but frankly should command a king's ransom - affordable, solid defense, veteran shortstops don't grow on trees. Outside of that, there's a number of guys who have potential replacements or are blocked in the system. They're not going to bring studs back on their own, but if we're smart, we might be able to pile up 2-3 young, AAA-level relievers or back of the rotation starting pitchers and really remake the bullpen while still clearing guys out. De Aza Flowers Gillaspie Beckham Dunn All of those guys could be moved during the season to clear space. We also have something of a minor league logjam forming in the middle infield, Semien, Sanchez, Leury, and Micah Johnson, with only 2b and SS between the two. If Sanchez keeps the hot streak he's currently on going, he could readily have solid numbers by the middle part of the season and someone could legitimately look at him as a solid option to fill an infield hole.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 05:51 PM) Agreed. They do that so they can manipulate various data sets. That is why if you go in with your loan pre-determined, you eliminate one way they can screw you. Without even realizing it I think I did this ok. I had a set of quotes on the sticker price of the car I wanted pulled from other websites and directly from other dealers. I don't even remember if they tried to play around with the terms on mine at all as a way around the price, I knew the price I was going to pay and started handing them list price numbers. I gave a shot at going $500 below the best offer I had on paper, they came back & were a lot higher, so I then turned to "match this quote and we'll have something" mode. I financed through the dealer but that's how I got things focused on the total price.

QUOTE (Y2JImmy0 @ Apr 29, 2014 -> 09:19 AM) Yeah I have no idea how I spelled that wrong. I'm usually good about that stuff. I still feel the same way though. I wasn't referring to the spelling.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 07:15 PM) That's an older core for a rebuild. Putting it another way, they are further along their development cycle than typical rebuilds. Well I assert it's a younger core and since you can't be bothered to do antyhing other than repeat your reply, I win.

QUOTE (Marty34 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 07:03 PM) As I said this winter, this is an older core by rebuilding standards and they have to hit the ground running. Thankfully, they've done that. Too bad the Sox didn't address the pitching situation in a serious manner. How on Earth could anyone write that as though it's true? Sale 25 Abreu 27 Gillaspie 26 Garcia 22 Viciedo 25 Eaton 25 Quintana 25 Davidson 23 Flowers 28 Phegley 26 Nieto 24 Semien 23 Webb 24 Petricka 25 Jones 28 The White Sox literally have 1 guy who will be over the age of 30 in 2 years and still under contract: John Danks. In 2 years Jones will be 30 and so will Flowers. If they're all held onto (not likely) that's 3 guys who might actually be on the back side of their careers 2 years from now.

Does Donald Trump saying Donald Sterling was set up go in the NBA or NFL thread? Yeah, go ahead and let him buy the Bills, NFL. I mean, this week's working great for the Clips.

Do MLB teams get to do any sort of physical work with draft picks (i.e. checking out Hoffman's arm) prior to the draft?

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 10:33 AM) Eh, I don't think it is far-fetched at all. He's becoming a significant prospect, but the realities of the team above him and his handed-ness, combined with him being far enough along for numbers to mean something but not quite major-league ready, make him a possible trade chip. Not saying I WANT to lose the guy, just that the system needs pitching more than 1B's, and if sending a guy like him to cap off a deal for the right pitcher is there, the team shouldn't hesitate. If the team does think he's blocked and the handed-ness is a major problem...there's a way to turn him into a trade piece as well. Take your time with him, don't push him upwards through the ringer like we do with so many other people. Put him in AA the whole year and let him rake, put him in Charlotte next year and hopefully let him rake and maybe even grow into a bit more power, and suddenly a couple years of strong numbers could actually turn him into a useful trade chip.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Apr 28, 2014 -> 12:24 PM) Except one has been a 3.0-plus WAR pitcher in five of the last six years. Much easier to say Jimenez is just in a funk and will come out of than Johnson who has no Major League track record. I could go the other way though and ask "Which one has lost the most velocity"?