Balta1701

QUOTE (Alpha Dog @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 07:31 PM) Yes, because then you can't hind behind the farce of it NOT being a tax increase. Kinda like putting that computer on sale for 10% off, after you jacked it up 20% first. Any way you slice it, the tax burden that is now there was NOT there before. So this bill increased taxes. If the CBO's estimates are correct, the mandate penalty will raise $25 billion over its first 10 years.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:52 PM) Spare me, Balta. How about your lame post telling me Viciedo improved his walk rates in the minors? Just because you choose to insult people passive aggressively does not mean it is not an insult. Shack, this is really crossing every personal attack line we have. I'm being gentle here.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:46 PM) It's not a personal insult. He's just your latest "defend at all costs" player now that Morel is injured. You disregard all your intelligence and logic to defend sone of these guys, for what reason, I don't know. Frankly I think it's more insulting to me that I feel obliged to respond to this horses***. Well, I'm going to drop it here and I think this says plenty right there.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:43 PM) How is that a non-answer? Depends what you got back, obviously. Probably Danks. So you're actually going to tell me that Viciedo won't ever improve or learn the strike zone and you want him replaced by a guy who has struck out 365 times in 1271 PA's at AAA?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:39 PM) So it's the Org's fault now? What, are you related to him or something? GMAB with the personal insult. I've been noting how the Sox have treated him for 3 years. Full season at 3b Jump up a level aggressively, put him at 1b for half a season, then move him back to 3b for 2 weeks, then move him to the major league bench where Ozzie sticks him because he has to prove soemthing to Kenny. Then A full season in RF at AAa, which had really solid performance except weak defense...because he'd never played there before. Finally, aggressively again push him to the big leagues at age 23, move him to another new position, get better defense from him than I expected, and yet people want him gone because he's only putting up a mid-.700's OPS as a rookie.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:37 PM) I'm not saying that at all. I say don't trade him. He's going to be a nice hitter, quite possibly a monster. Still learning, he's on pace right now for 30 homers. The Sox need all the offense they can get, and he's cost controlled for the foreseeable future. The correct question is what is his trade value if most scouts believe what you think? Or are you just smarter than everyone else? If I were the Phillies I'd happily take him for Hamels if I didn't think I could resign him. But then, that trade doesn't make this White Sox team any better.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:36 PM) It's either one or the other, DA. He's either this great prospect with all these comparables, or he is a prospect who's starting to fizzle out a bit. You can't have it both ways. His Fizzle went away a couple years ago, now he's rebuilding it because the team has finally stuck with him and given him playing time.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:32 PM) Because the result is the same week after week. He's the same player he was 2 years ago, all he does is swings as hard as he f***ing can.......You're saying he's not worth all that much but expect a big return. Talk about nonsense. The real answer of course is that when teams are taking on guys like Viciedo at the deadline, they're taking them on because they're losing, and they're giving you 1 year or 2 year rentals. And giving up Viciedo for a guy who would be a free agent this year, for a team that just cut $25 million in salary, would be incredibly terrible planning. You open up a LF hole when you are finally filling some of your holes with cheap talent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:27 PM) It doesn't happen as quickly as we all want it to, but it does happen. This is exactly what I said would happen going in to this season, except for the hot streak. Viciedo would struggle more than we'd want, but we have to stick with him, because we're not going to get anything near his value back in a trade, and what he can bring to a lineup if you really develop him is enormous.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:26 PM) Who the f*** cares Because the results were the same, week after week.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:26 PM) You guys can keep making up horses*** about how he is showing such a vast improvement...honestly, I hope you're right...but the result is the same week after week after week after week.... Except for that enormous hot streak, where the result was the exact opposite for about 4 weeks but we're allowed to forget that.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:24 PM) Because they are usually the only ones he can actually catch up to? Because they're more often lower in the zone and that's his most dangerous area.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:20 PM) He's not getting to pitches on the outer half either. Face it, he swings as hard as he f***ing can. God knows if he picks up the spin on any of these pitches. Which is...exactly what I just said. He's now getting around on the inside pitch better so now people are working on him a different way...pushing him low and away to get ahead of him.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:14 PM) Because he's incredibly gifted physically. Doesn't guarantee he's going to make the adjustments he needs to be a great MLB player, which is what Marty and I have been arguing. He is showing very little ability to adjust his approach, regardless of MLB experience. This is the biggest indicator there is when evaluating very good young hitters. Actually, the ball that got him out the first time he came up, the up and in fastball killed him. That shows up in the fangraphs version where he was a negative value player against the fastball despite being only a part time player. He's also gotten quite a bit better against the cutter. His weakness has actually been against the 2 seamer...the pitch with sink on it. Which probably means that he's pushing people off of the fastball and onto different ways of getting him out....which is why everyone's working on the "Get him out low and away" like we're seeing the Yankees doing right now, because he's getting to the balls he used to get beat on inside.

QUOTE (RZZZA @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:11 PM) It's way too early to say that Viciedo has not shown a 'capacity to improve'. We'll see how he plays next year. No, you're not allowed to. What 23 year olds do in their first 3 months as full time players define their entire careers.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:10 PM) You are smarter than this. Are you going to argue that the professional Cuban league is the same as high school ball in the US? Dayan Viciedo was able to have success in the Cuban leagues at age what, 16?

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:09 PM) He's played baseball all his life. He knows better than to swing as hard as he can every time. He is having a solid year for his first full MLB season, but it doesn't excuse the fact that he is often very selfish at the plate many times. Thursday night swinging for the fences in that situation was fine, but he takes that approach nearly every time. Do you really think that very many people come into the bigs and actually know that? Hell, just thinking about guys in this game, Robinson Cano didn't know that, Curtis Granderson didn't know that (dude struck out 174 times in his first full year).

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:08 PM) Viciedo has Cuban experience. That counts as minor league experience. Ok, Paul Konerko probably played baseball in high school. That counts too under that silly of a standard. After all, Viciedo was playing baseball at age 15!

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:05 PM) I'm talking about the MLB level and you damn-well know it. How many motherf***ing walks does he have this year? 12. How many motherf***ing 23 year olds can be legit contributors without any struggles?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 04:03 PM) I don't know about selfish, but it's a dumb approach. He should learn from Paulie. You have to take some pitches and not swing that hard every time. He really does remind me of Uribe sometimes. Other times he looks like a guy with huge upside. When Paul Konerko was 23 he didn't have this good of an approach. And, when Paul Konerko was 23, he had 2232 minor league PA's under his belt. Viciedo had 1299.

How has no one asked why Gavin started this inning?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:59 PM) It's an invalid excuse. Show me that you can f***ing learn and improve. Walks per year: 2009: 23 (AA) 2010: 13 (AAA-Big league bench) 2011: 54 Done. I've shown you that he can.

WTF?

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jul 1, 2012 -> 03:58 PM) But he's only 23!!! You say that as though it's not true.

This series is going to give Manto some good video to use with Tank. Hopefully he learns from it.