Balta1701

103 strikeouts in 81 innings. You coulda looked that one up yourself.

The Rays literally extended Glasnow in August of 2022. Like 1 month before the end of the season. They could have let him walk if they thought it was a bad deal.

So Giolito for Glasnow? Removing Lowe entirely? Because Glasnow + Lowe for Giolito is even worse for the Rays, and that's what it sounds like you're saying. The Rays chose to keep Glasnow with an extension signed in August. Am I reading this right that you think Glasnow has negative value to the Rays?

Of course you'd be a fan of the move for Lowe, that's the point. Every White Sox fan would be. The White Sox getting a near all star 2b with 4 years of control for a pitcher with 1 year of control, and clearing payroll in the process? The Rays simply would not do that unless they believed Lowe was permanently hurt. That's the point. Even if he's blocking someone else, he's worth way more than that. If you told me the Rays were talking Kopech for Lowe, I would genuinely understand that, because Kopech has 3 years of control and even though Kopech hasn't broken out yet, the Rays could believe this is the year he does and then they have something of huge value to them. If you told me that the Rays wanted Giolito and someone like Colas, I might buy that also, but again now you run into the "Weak white sox system" problem where about the only guys worth enough to the Rays are Montgomery (overpay for a guy who was hurt last year), Colas (needed) and the classic "multiple guys for 1" trades.

1. Jose Quintana will not be available for $12 million. 2. The Rays have Lowe for $5 million this year, $8.7 million next year, and then 2 $10-$11 million options. I understand why the Rays would move him, they're the rays, they move guys like this to save money. However, we're talking about a guy who was a 5 win player in 2021, and a bounceback from him makes him a borderline all star. It's not an exact comparison, but what would you think if you were the Phillies, you had Aaron Nola under control for 1 year, and the White Sox offered you Luis Robert for him? It's such a lopsided move based on the years of control and money that you have to think the White Sox realize Robert is permanently hurt, right? 3. The Rays are taking back an $11 million pitcher? I mean, seriously?

The list of OFs with 2 years of control is...not impressive? https://www.spotrac.com/mlb/free-agents/2024/outfield/ Manuel Margot of the Rays shows up with 3 years of control. Alex Verdugo? Whit Merrifield?

So this fills the 2b hole and cuts $5 million off the payroll, but: 1. We're assuming the Rays are dumb enough to give this guy up? What do they know that we don't about his health where they would trade this guy for a pitcher under control for 1 year? 2. Let's say we have $20 million to spend right now, that leaves the payroll just about level compared to last year. After that trade, you have $25 million to spend, but you still need 2 OFs and now you need a starting pitcher, and this thread exists because "Starters are costing more than we thought."

I'd be willing to consider these ideas for trading people to clear salary if the White Sox had literally anyone worthy of being a big league player to back them up. Same thing with Giolito. You might still even be able to dump a large portion of Moncada's contract, if you wanted. But there's no good reason to do that and then try to trade or sign a FA to fill this spot, that doesn't make you better and it uses up the clearly limited funds we have.

Jake Burger holding down 3b is like Andrew Vaughn holding down RF last year.

If teams believed that, then wouldn't Manaea get substantially more than Giolito in free agency?

Isn't "being in the hunt for the division" part of the point? So why are we downgrading the starting rotation?

And you won't answer because you know the obvious problem. To sign a guy comparable to Giolito requires either: a lot more money than we're likely to spend on Giolito, in a season where the budget is already tight...or a lot of luck, which we're already gambling on with Clevinger.

At least on paper we'd make that "the White Sox have the highest rotation WAR in the Central in the ZiPS projections" post false.

Who is this pitcher that you think they're signing for 3-4 years? Bassitt? Taillon?

If they want a real difference maker kind of player, aren't they going to have to accept someone who isn't ready to contribute right away? No one is giving you an Andrew Vaughn with 4+ years of control as a starter for a guy with 1 year of control. It's just not happening. You could certainly get someone under control for 1-2 years from a team that needs a pitcher. You can make a case that Giolito for Gleyber Torres works just fine as the Yankees always could use pitching and that provides IF help for the White Sox. You can make a case for Giolito being a piece in a deal for Max Kepler as the Twins need pitching. But you do that...great, now you have a guy under control for 1 year that helps you next year...and you've transferred the hole in your lineup from LF/2b to a big one in your starting rotation. How is this better? The White Sox don't have anyone who can replace a starting pitcher right now. On the other hand, if you took someone from AA, you're probably not getting a top 100 prospect but you could get someone with a shot at contributing in 2024. So instead of having holes in LF, backup OF, and a pair of rookie starters, now you have holes in LF, backup OF, a pair of rookie starters, and Davis Martin is your fifth starter. You have an extra $11 million to spend or so, but your starting rotation has another gap in it. Are we giving up on the 2023 season? If so, why is Giolito the only guy being sold?

Also worth remembering that Giolito is fully eligible for a QO and a returning draft pick if the White Sox hold onto him for another year, so whatever they get back better be substantially more valuable than that pick.

So first, it is still entirely possible that if Giolito has a better first half, he could be worth more at the trade deadline. Second...if the prices of pitchers are higher than we think, does that not mean the price of replacing him is higher than we think?

Why does the fanbase not attend games though? When the Philadelphia Phillies opened their new ballpark, their attendance jumped, but they won high 80s numbers of games the next 3 years. Then, they went on a streak of 5 straight playoff appearances, which basically sold out their stadium every day for years. Their payroll reached the 2nd highest in baseball. Then, they had to rebuild, They dropped to a low of 63 wins, and attendance literally dropped in half. Their payroll dropped to a low below $85 million for a couple years. Then, they signed Bryce Harper as their team improved to .500, and attendance per game shot up by 7000 fans per game, while their record was basically unchanged. Then last year, they spent money again, had a much higher payroll than the White Sox, and made a world series run. What's different from the White Sox? the 5 straight playoff appearances, the willingness to sign a Bryce Harper and immediately get rewarded by ticket sales, and the willingness to go the Dombrowski route to winning that involves understanding some of their signings won't work but if they produce a playoff run - $$$$ Profit. Is there some reason the White Sox cannot do this? Is their market dramatically smaller than that of the Phillies?

The Harper/Machado offseason was actually way worse than you're remembering. That's the offseason where they traded Narvaez for Colome (because Narvaez won't ever become a decent defensive catcher and the one thing my 60 win team needs is a closer), traded for Yonder Alonso (Friends and Family package!), signed Jon Jay, signed Ivan Nova, and signed Kelvin Herrera to a 2 year deal (because my 60 win team needs bullpen depth). That was also the year when they were supposed to be out of the penalty box in terms of international signings, but were so lazy about doing their job that they had money leftover to trade to Texas to get them to absorb Nate Jones's deal. (one positive note - after they had 0 catchers on their roster, this was the offseason they added McCann, but they also paid money for Welington Castillo). That offseason set the White Sox back in ways that are still rippling through. They signed Grandal because they were too lazy to teach Narvaez anything. They added nearly $60 million to the payroll on a 60 win team with guys on 1-2 year deals - boy I can't think of a year where it would be better to use that than 2019. And they completely and utterly failed at using the playing time they had to develop long term solutions anywhere, so they have spent multiple years dumping money and talent into filling OF, bullpen, and bench slots. They gave playing time to develop key guys like Ryan Cordell, Charlie Tilson, and Daniel Palka in the OF, and worked to develop noted long term 2b option Yolmer Sanchez with 600 PAs. That was literally the offseason where they said "Now we can go back to doing things the way we want to do it and stop with all this planning ahead and thinking s***. Now let's go sign relievers!"

That is including: 1. All of the money spent on signing international players and drafted players, which most people do not count as part of the big league payroll. 2. AJ Pollock's $5 million buyout, which may or may not be reasonable to bookkeep on 2022 because it wasn't paid until November. 3. $3 million of AJ Pollock's signing bonus, which if the White Sox actually had to pay it makes the deal for him look way worse (would total 1 year, $19.5 million).

Jose Abreu was a 3.9 WAR player last year and that followed up 2.9 and 2.7 in previous years. Salvador Perez was a 0.5 WAR player last year, following up 3.3 and 1.9 the previous years. Furthermore, his defensive performance has collapsed - he was one of the 5 worst catchers in baseball defensively, and he has been bad defensively 2 years in a row. Perez is still owed $62 million, more than Abreu. Yeah, Perez's contract is worse than Abreu's.

Gavin Sheets doesn’t have any more value than a bench piece in a trade, certainly not a starter. I’m not even sure you could get Davis Martin for him if Martin was in some other team. Maybe if the other team was deeper for a 1b and had more pitching than about any other team in baseball.

Oh come on guys this is literally a tweet saying the White Sox May do something somewhere somehow possibly. A tweet saying “the Chicago White Sox are a Major League Baseball franchise” has exactly that same amount of information.