Balta1701

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 06:07 PM) OK if you going to go down that road then no there is no proof he wasn't on them when he was younger. However, he didn't fit the physical profile and from the ones I've seen and worked with I don't believe he was on them. I guess Sammy Sosa was on them with the Rangers and Sox as well. Palmeiro must have taken them in college when he and Bobby Thigpen fought for ther HR title at Mississippi State. Everyone sorta gives Bonds the benefit of the doubt on his pre-1998 time. I simply don't. If he was willing to cheat after watching the 1998 home run derby, that stain should apply to his whole career.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 05:26 PM) If you watched him play, it was very obvious when he started using them. He went from a lean body and all around athlete to the muscle bound slugger later in his career. The amount of PEDs he used was staggering and changed his body rapidly. And he couldnt' have used any PED's previously to get over an injury or get ready for a season? You have the blood samples? He couldn't have increased the dosages or changed over to the new drug?

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 04:48 PM) Another reason he may get in is that he was one of the best players in the game before he started the PEDs. He was an a@# but a great all around player. Guys like McGwire, palmeiro and Piazza started the PEDs right away so it is unsure how good they could have been without them. How do you know for certain that he didn't start PED's in 1984?

Really, no one made a "Music" thread yet? Music must suck these days. Perhaps an "At the Drive In" Reunion will help fix that.

QUOTE (Tex @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 04:21 PM) I think their would have been less anti-Bonds stuff if he hit "only" 596 homeruns and not surpassed a couple of non steroid icons. He probably would have had an easier time. If the all-time hits leader can be left out of the hall, I image the all-time homerun leader could to. In the middle of the 2002 season, retiring, after his tetrahydrogestrinone fueled 2001 campaign? I think he'd be facing the same thing as McGwire. The only reason people might put Bonds in anyway is that he actually did pass 756, even though he was chemically aided.

QUOTE (WHarris1 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 03:53 PM) Does he have the same connection to steroids as the rest of them? I honestly don't remember. He's a guy like Bagwell who's had some whispers about him, but probably less than a connection even than Sosa.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 03:46 PM) He may well be the only one of that group in 2013. Sosa, Bonds, Clemens won't because of the steroid stuff. Schilling and Biggio don't seem like first ballot material to me. BGO deserves first ballot.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 03:42 PM) So the slight of hand is intentional. Gotcha. Of course. He was perfectly content to build a following amongst the people who want to read racist crap in the 1980's and 1990's, for literally years. So yeah, I'd call b.s. on him saying that he didn't pay any attention to a long series of documents that went out in his name and were even designed to look like he wrote them, if in fact he didn't. Btw, where did the author actually come out at? It must have either happened in the last 2 weeks or the WaPo didn't know about it on Dec. 27th.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 03:38 PM) Except that they did find the writer of the newsletters. You'll note I said zero words about the authorship. I said "Pay attention to or edit".

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 03:30 PM) I have yet to see him caught lying about anything or making stuff up in this cycle. Care to elaborate on your claims? I don't know if it counts as "Caught lying or making stuff up", but "I didn't pay attention to or edit the newsletters that went out in my name and were key to helping build up my popularity, so you can't call me a racist because of them!" is pretty darn impossible to take seriously.

The son of Packers Offensive Coordinator Joe Philbin has been reported missing.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:59 PM) I rooted for Denver for the soul fact that I wouldn't have to listen to Joe Cowley's smug ass talking about Pittsburgh all week logn. I rooted for Denver because their QB is not a rapist.

White House Chief of Staff Bill Daley (yes that one) has resigned.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:52 PM) Also all of the negativity about Tebow this year and his future potential isn't fair because he should be evaluated over the course of 16-32 games too. Totally true, and I'm still in the camp that the thing the Broncos need to do next year is to try to bring in guys who can help him with his weaknesses. I think that they're nuts if they don't throw their checkbook at Wes Welker.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:48 PM) The biggest reason Tebow played is because Elway had to make an evaluation on whether he was worth keeping or not. With the team lost for the year, there was no downside. If he failed, Elway would know to bury him. And the reason why this particular 3rd string QB had to be decided immediately on whether he was worth keeping or not was...? He wasn't going anywhere, he doesn't have any options that need picked up in the next couple years, he wasn't going to be cut, they were already out of position for Luck...there's no legitimate football-related reason why that player needed to be evaluated immediately, especially following an offseason where he didn't get the coaching he needed to try to grow as a passer.

QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:43 PM) I think there is more potential in Chicago. I think the NBA agreed. Did you see how much press the Knicks got for just assembling a team that is possibly competitive for a playoff spot?

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:36 PM) Then he started 6 straight games late in 2009. One very outstanding game vs a bad Lions team, and another decent game, but then let's look at the other 4 games. 13-31, 99 yds, 2 INTs, 0 TDs 15-34, 100 yds, 0 TDs 6-19, 90 yds, 0 TDs 10-17, 66 yds, 0 TDs, 2 INTs Bad. And this 6 game stretch is pretty much the only legit bit people have to evaluate him on, and the usual rule of thumb is that it takes minimum 16-32 games of consistent playing time for a QB to really start to develop in terms of reading a defense and managing an offense. I'm not surprised people would like to see what he has to offer either, if a team doesn't have much at the QB slot.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:31 PM) I probably would have stuck with Orton honestly. The season was lost, let him finish it out. Tebow clearly wasn't ready yet, and Quinn just flat out sucks. But Tebow would have been my next choice because I would want to see if he's got any future with the organization. I wouldn't keep him in the organization for 3-4 years without knowing if he could step in an play if my #1 goes down. hell, I would have gone with Tebow too. But let's understand why...it's because he was a first round pick when he didn't deserve to be, and because the fanbase won't let the org live it down if they didn't give him a chance.

I like the phrase "Number 8 Indiana".

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:27 PM) And that fact was proven over 2-3 seasons. He's played 14 games in his career. In both 2008 and 2009, he was given 3 games where he had a solid first game but then struggled, and was sent to the bench after 2 poor performances. The Browns won one of those games in 2008 in spite of him, but they benched him anyway.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:16 PM) they sucked and the year was lost and they wanted to find out what they had. So why did the #3 QB get the call over the #2 QB? There are still people in this thread who have written that they'd like to see what Brady Quinn has.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:10 PM) They are one game away from the Super Bowl. Do you really think they get there with Kyle Orton or Brady Quinn? I'd say the same thing that people said about the Bears when the Bears beat Seattle last year. Yes, they're 2 games away...but they still have to be able to beat teams that can score the ball. The Steelers offense was a mess, you saw that yourself. They next have to face a team that can score the ball, and then the winner of 2 teams that may well do the same thing the Broncos do except better. Hell, I'm not sure that the Patriots team can win the Super Bowl right now because they can't defend. If the Broncos can't complete those short-mid range passes for conversions like they failed to do yesterday, they will not be able to hang with a team that can score the ball...and there are a lot of those remaining.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:06 PM) So if the Broncos had put Tebow in a position to fail? Instead they put him in a position to utilize his abilities instead of trying to fit him into a square peghole. And trust me, there were plenty of people questioning Fox, even to this day. It's still an open question though whether "Putting him in a position to utilize his abilities" also "puts the team in a position where it cannot win a super bowl".

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 02:02 PM) It also didn't hold water as Hanie got benched too. Exactly. Tebow would have gotten the same treatment had Fox continued throwing the ball or if he didn't have a crowd of people asking about him constantly in every press conference/radio show.

QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Jan 9, 2012 -> 01:56 PM) Lol, another Christian conspiracy. I love it. And no, your opinion here is absolutely, 100% ridiculous. The Broncos made a franchise decision to play an untested guy after their season was lost over a career back-up who failed as a starter for Cleveland. The rest is history. No one said a darn thing about it being a conspiracy. The Broncos made a very risky decision to jump their 3rd string QB ahead of their 2nd string QB because that QB was a first round pick...and that QB was a first round pick in no small part because of his dedicated folloiwng. There doesn't have to be some evil cabal for people to make moves based on money. The real genius here continues to be Fox, who realized he needed to completely scrap his passing game until he could give that QB enough reps in practice to be adequate. But frankly, I find it hard to believe that if Caleb Hanie came in and gave the Bears the same performance Tebow did in his first couple games, the Bears would have stuck with him, even if the team was winning games.