Balta1701

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 06:23 PM) Just like with Swisher, it seemed that KW jumped at the first offer that came across the phone for Vazquez. Now, you might say there's no way to know if that is true or not. However, for him to make a deal so early into the offseason, he must have had some interest in Flowers. The deal is a huge failure if Flowers is a bust because the organization acquired him with thoughts of him being their catcher of the future. We're a team with a 100 million dollar payroll, so we shouldn't be happy just to unload a player's salary for nothing. Frankly, I would have jumped at the first offer that came across the plate where I didn't have to pay for Vazquez's contract either. Of course, you're the one making the assumption here; that KW did either not give time to solicit other offers or passed up the chance to get better offers. At least in the world I remember after the 08 season, I recall a situation where any team that was willing to take on the next 2 years of Javy's deal would have gotten him on a silver platter.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 05:55 PM) I'm not ready to write off Flowers either, but sadly, the Sox very well could be. We heard how down they were about him during ST of last year, and after this year's dismal season, who knows what opportunities they'll give him. Like you said, Flowers was the key to the deal, and if he doesn't pan out, then the trade was a huge failure. How in the world would you have called that a huge failure? Was keeping Javy Vazquez in 2009 a better option, or were there people who were going to pay a better price?

Nelson Cruz pulled with Tightness in his left hamstring. He's hit the DL 3 times this year with hamstring issues.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 05:10 PM) I'll be honest, to me, this seems like a very homeristic view of things to excuse KW for a bad trade. This could be what J4Life was talking about, but I don't want to speak for him. I'm sure KW had higher expectations for the trade than simply freeing up Javy's salary. After jow Javy pitched down the stretch in 2008, "Dumping Javy Vazquez's salary on someone else for whatever beans we can get" was at the top of everyone's list, probably including yours. Getting a backup or two and maybe a guy with a little bit of catching talent would be a solid bonus.

Berkman goes down hard, stays in teh game though.

Well, CJ Wilson has collapsed.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 05:00 PM) Can't we just say the Javy deal was awful because we got virtually no Major League production so far from the 4 players we acquired, with the center piece of the deal being a bust so far? Well, no, because we still moved $22 million/2 years of salary, and while we lost potentially good production in 2009, we avoided paying that kind of money for a guy worth about as much as Kotsay in 2010.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 04:49 PM) No idea what this is asking, and now I'm concerned I didn't articulate my post as accurately as I wanted. Another thing that frustrates me about how some perceive our minor league system is an argument like this "we might not have good starting pitching in the minors, but we have a handful of good relief arms". No one really cares about relievers in the minors. You said: 1. People say "Morel shouldn't be used as a throw-in in a trade because he has a lot of value to us". 2. This statement angers you. 3. You point out that other people actually do seem to value Morel somewhat highly, based on the ranking you gave. 4. You took this to mean that Morel has value to other teams. 5. The step you missed...if Morel has significant value to other teams, then going back to 1; he shouldn't be used just as a "Throw-in" in a deal. He ought to be only dealt if he nets something of value back directly.

Flying lawsuits.

QUOTE (fathom @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 04:31 PM) There's been plenty of prospects that I've been on the bandwagon for, most notably Beckham and others. What frustrates me is when some of the people on this board don't realize that just because a player is a decent prospect in our system, that doesn't mean they're actually considered a prospect in the overall scheme of MLB. One of my favorite things to say during trade deadline talk is that we shouldn't trade some of our prospects (perfect example is Morel), as the player is probably more valuable to the Sox than they are as a throw-in in another deal because the other team won't value them as high. I do have to say that Morel's #11 ranking in BA for his minor league division (AA, I think) was impressive, as the list was loaded with prospect superstars. But that argues quite effectively that the statement Morel should not be a throw-in in another deal is 100% correct.

Go. Rangers.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:54 PM) reading that again, I should have put "nowhere" as the last word to get the triple negative. Such a wasted opportunity.

QUOTE (MHizzle85 @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:34 PM) I'm pretty sure Pax told D'Antoni the job was his, then Reinsdorf cried broke & went with the cheaper VDN. Reinsdorf cried broke...and about a month and a half later wound up with VDN.

QUOTE (Soxy @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:32 PM) Ugh, that was f***ing grim. There are days were I want to turn in my membership to the human race. Become an honorary rhesus monkey or something. Impossible. I haven't seen no half woman, half monkey running around anywhere.

Yay for self consistent models! That is all.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:25 PM) Eh, I don't think so. From a GM standpoint, the Bears are only behind the Raiders and the Bills who both have no direction. Frisco actually is pretty good at assembling talent, and they should be a really good team this year. Alex Smith isn't working out though and neither are their offensive coordinators. Seattle has pretty decent direction. It's still too early to tell on TB. Cleveland has Holmgren who knows what he's doing. Cincy has decent direction, I think it's moreso Marvin Lewis. Carolina you can make an argument for. Dallas is another team that needs to fire it's coaches(plural for a reason). Detroit seems to finally be moving in the right direction, they're just such a mess, it's not going to be overnight. Denver is too early to tell. But then again, the Bears are right at the top of the league in defense and have quality guy at the QB position. The Bears look bad right now but they're no where near the worst run franchise in the NFL, that's just hyperbole.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:22 PM) Not true. D'Antoni wanted the job. Doug Collins, Thibodeau. Everyone wanted the job to be honest. No, you're wrong. D'Antoni might have considered it but jumped at the Knicks before the Bulls got around to making an offer. The job was given to Doug Collins but he decided he didn't want to coach again at the time. Thibs, I can't remember if he even got interviewed, but that process dragged on literally forever.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:21 PM) Young was viewed as a premium talent universally before we traded him. And he had been inconsistent until this year. Nowhere but by Whitesox people have Flowers and Gilmore been viewed as premium prospects. Tyler Flowers was #60 on Baseball America's list coming into 2010. Chris Young was ranked at #23 the season that we traded him away.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 03:13 PM) Really? Chris Young hasn't exactly been a star. He's had a couple decent seasons but i wouldn't say he's premium talent. Plus, it's not like Javy didn't continually s*** the bed in the clutch when he was here. Flowers and Gilmore were both highly thought of prospects from an organization that historically drafts well. It's hard to really complain too much about either end of that trade. In hindsight yeah...it's not like we were going to get better for Jittery Javy (we coulda had Melky Cabrera!), there's still some chance Flowers pans out, but overall, Young has been worth 8.2 WAR for the D-Backs, Javy contributed 14.9 WAR for the Sox. Javy got paid more but Young earned a big contract early that the D-Backs are "stuck with" if he doesn't pick it up. You're going to be hard pressed to succeed arguing that either side won big time there.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 02:56 PM) Pretty much. It's like the Bulls hiring VDN as a lameduck coach. They had no intention of keeping him beyond his contract. Only difference is the Cubs have no Derrick Rose coming up. Well, not exactly...part of the VDN hire was also that no one else wanted the job.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 02:40 PM) Maybe they will understand I am serious. I wish I could just ban them, but I don't have mod powers at school Next time tell them if they don't do as you wish, you'll become angry and use your magic.

There are pretty much no words for how vile this mess has been. Here's some background reading if this interests you.

QUOTE (Tex @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 02:05 PM) Keeping these guys from lunch for basically being obnoxious assholes in class. They never listen, always disrupt. So we're going to be spending some quality time together. Loose Lunch Lips sink lectures.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 02:01 PM) I was equally shocked when I found out. He looks just like a regular guy. Just because he owns a windowless white van doesn't mean he's creepy.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Oct 20, 2010 -> 01:14 PM) Chill out. You're starting to sound like a Tea Partier. D'Oh.