Balta1701

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 12:29 PM) Yeah, they should do what the fanbase says. LMAO. No one here had a blueprint to a championship last winter. The fanbase got what they wanted in 1986 when Hawk launched LaRussa. Then years later they caulfielded and couldn't believe anyone could be such a dumbass and fire him. If somehow, and I really don't know how, they can stack their roster, Robin will become a lot smarter. I'll note, I asked specifically if you thought they would give Robin Ventura a 3 year deal, I asked if you were ok with the pitching coach staying on for 3 years, and whether or not keeping a manager on 1 year deals was consistent with a longer term view as described in that quote. You answered none of those questions.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 12:18 PM) No they are not. But cherry pick stories and embellish to try to fit your narrative. Explain this quote if everything is A-OK "We're mired in mediocrity," Hahn said. "That's not the goal. That's not acceptable. … The goal was to put ourselves in a situation to win a championship, and (being) stuck at .500 or around .500 doesn't do that. "We may well have to adjust and take a longer-term view and take a different approach going forward." And I'll start believing it when they do something along those lines. Let's look for evidence that they're actually willing to do that, to look longer-term. Bringing back a manager on a 1 year deal when the fanbase has turned against him would be the exact opposite of a "longer-term view", wouldn't you agree? A "longer-term view" would mean you'd want a coaching staff in place that you could expect would be there in 3-4 years even if things continue to go wrong. Are they going to give Ventura a 3+ year deal again? Are you ok with keeping the same pitching coach for the next 3-4 years?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 11:58 AM) Yes I am because what you said is false. I don't think effort is a problem with this team. They rarely roll over and die. The talent level was short. Especially with injuries. They are so thin, they cannot overcome injuries to average players. And top to bottom, the organization is ok with that. As long as they can come in at the end of year evaluations and say they did their best, they shouldn't be evaluated on wins and losses. The manager, the coaching staff, the front office, all agree.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 10:31 AM) Can you link me to that quote. Don't waste your time. There isn't a quote out there that states the White Sox don't work hard enough. And you're going to of course focus on the exact words, I'm sure.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 09:55 AM) Yeah the locker room issues. Started out 23-10 after the LaRoche thing. After Sale cut up the uniforms, they won the next 4 games. Apparently they need more locker room issues. And one of their best players publicly coming out and saying they don't work hard enough?

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 09:33 AM) The front office is blaming itself. They won't fire themselves, but then again, who does? Besides, maybe Robin says no, they hire Dave Martinez, call it an offseason and win the pennant next year. "I did a terrible job. In response, I should do the exact same thing. It'll work better next time." White Sox, pre-2016. Why are people like me annoyed? Because we're expecting the exact same thing pre-2017, and keeping the manager despite all the locker room issues that spilled out into the public eye this year fits with that expectation perfectly.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 07:27 AM) Seriously? Uh, how about the money he's spent? In just the past two years, I'm counting about $150M in financial commitments to Melky, Robertson, Frazier, Shields, Samardzija, LaRoche, etc. Not to mention the long-term deals that he gave to Abreu, Eaton, Sale, Quintana, etc. That may not be George Steinbrenner money and one can question the intelligence of a couple of those moves (Shields, in particular). But it's pretty significant spending by somebody who doesn't have the Steinbrenner family's financial resources. If Reinsdorf doesn't care about winning, he wouldn't be spending like this. He could've saved a lot of money by fielding a team full of the Sox's crappy AA and AAA players. Look, I realize that you're pissed about the way that the organization is being run and I don't disagree with you about that point. But the idea that winning isn't a high priority for Reinsdorf is just dumb. QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 09:09 AM) They are going to sell. But they are going to get more than just prospects back. Besides, if it's the manager's fault this team isn't winning, how much would they really have to tinker with the roster? Nightengale pointed out it didn't matter who was making out the line up card the last 4 years, the Sox weren't making the playoffs, and he is correct. I would imagine Robin would choose to return, but if he does not, at least we know they are blaming themselves for this and something will be done about it. I think it got missed again so let's point out the contrast between these two posts. On one hand, "Look at all the effort JR has put into winning - insert long list of players". On the other hand "It didn't matter who was making out the lineup card in the last 4 years, the Sox weren't making the playoffs". These 2 statements are in direct competition.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Sep 29, 2016 -> 09:07 AM) I don't get how that's possible unless you sell. There aren't many buying options out there, and other teams will be able to easily outbid us. The White Sox easily have $30 million to play with, perhaps more, plus Fulmer as a trade chip. They can do as big of an overhaul as they did last season.

QUOTE (Black_Jack29 @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 08:03 PM) I'm not sure that it's an accountability problem. I'd say the problem is Reinsdorf being unwilling to do a rebuild (full or partial) because of his age. Dude wants to win now and can't wait another four or five years to properly construct a winner. Detroit has the same problem with Mike Ilitch. If Reinsdorf were so desperate to win, then he'd be after the manager's head after being told he had a competitive team 2 years in a row and then winding up a 4th place afterthought. At the worst he'd be saying "why not, we're desperate to win, try someone else" Having the organization made of the guys he wants there is a bigger priority for him. Winning is lower on the list than that.

QUOTE (Lip Man 1 @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 06:07 PM) From the Sun-Times web site: "While most speculation about Ventura’s status leaned toward the Sox going in a different direction, the front office believes the Sox’ record is more a reflection of roster deficiencies than Ventura’s managerial skills." Sure every manager always brings in a relief pitcher before the opponents pinch hitter is officially announced! But seriously, if the front office doesn't think Ventura is at fault then who exactly is? (Hint: They probably don't think it's them...all they do is the evaluations, the trades and sign the free agents right? LOL) Mark It's just bad luck. You heard Kenny - they were right there until those relievers got hurt and that's just the kind of thing you can't prepare for. Get them back next year and they're the team to beat.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 05:27 PM) This all begs the question as to who the f*** is running this organization? This reads like a JR decision through and through. As bad as Hahn and KW have been, they don't have the same loyalty to Ventura as JR, and I cannot imagine it would be their decision to keep him. My version is that JR has created a system where there is no accountability at any level and as a consequence everyone tried to keep things just as they are so that their jobs never are put under pressure. No one in the org is willing to challenge their current formula as fundamentally flawed because they would be the disloyal one if they did so. So everyone just insists they did a good job and there's no problem. If Hahn changes managers then someone did something wrong by hiring and extending him - can't admit that. The one place where this started breaking out was having two players come out and say that this team didn't care about winning, in various ways.

I found this piece to be a useful summary of some of the law. A comparable example to what courts might order is what happened with Argentina. They defaulted on their debt a decade ago and some wall street firms hassled them with court orders for a decade - including court ordered seizures of any assets in the country. That wound up hurting Argentina's ability to do business overseas enough that eventually they made some payments to settle those debts.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 04:18 PM) The more I read Nightengale's story, the more I think Ventura is NOT coming back. Focus on the two key phrases: he can "return if he wants" and "the White Sox refuse to blame Ventura for the losing records". I mean, what better way for Mr. Loyalty Program Owner to set the stage for a graceful exit of one his prized pups than this. Allowing Ventura to leave on his own terms without the shame of being fired, AND publicy declaring the team doesn't hold him accountable for the past five years of futility. Robin will sail off quietly into the sunset, and then that will be that. I think the rule with the White Sox is that they always think they have a great team and they tell themselves they all did a great job up and down the list. So, when they don't win, it's not because the GM did a bad job, it's because no one could have foreseen Putnam and Petricka getting hurt - Kenny literally said that last month, that was what demolished their season. If you follow that logic, then no part of it is Robin's fault and they have a strategy that works, they're just one player away and they'll need to pay any price for that player this offseason. Again. "The White Sox refuse to blame Ventura for the losing records" seems to fit that model to me and no one in the organization will question that - if anyone were to admit that what they were doing wasn't working, then there might be consequences for that kind of failure. As long as everyone agrees it was just bad luck and no one could have prepared for the team being that unlucky, then no one will have to worry about wins and losses being used to evaluate their performance and everyone keeps cashing their checks.

QUOTE (Baron @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 03:40 PM) Just wait...they'll sign him and then wont add any players. It would be the ultimate f*** you to the fanbase. Of course they'll sign players - come on guys, we know how this works. They will acquire one big name guy who was on the all star team last year so that people will say they won the offseason. They'll sprinkle in several Rick Hahn Specials and then declare loudly that 2017 will be there year. They'll get that payroll back up into the $130 million range, hell maybe more - depending on how fast revenue sharing is growing. And no matter how much they say they're ready to win coming into ST, on paper they'll look like a 3rd or 4th place team hoping to get lucky with some of the RHS signings.

QUOTE (RockRaines @ Sep 28, 2016 -> 01:31 PM) If they trade Sale and bring back Robin they should expect ALOT fewer tickets sold next season. I don't know what better sign you can get that they are not trading sale than this step. The front office is ok with where things are right now at all levels. They will keep saying they're doing a great job and no one challenges that format. Robin is one of those yes men, so why wouldn't he be back?

QUOTE (oldsox @ Sep 19, 2016 -> 05:09 PM) The K.C. announcers blamed the hot weather for Rodon's difficulties. That...seems unhelpful?

So for those who have TV access, that's 2 bad starts for Rodon in a row following his good stretch. Is there something serious here we should be worried about, or are we simply in "he's up against the innings number he threw last year and his arm his hitting a wall" territory? Is he still using the changeup he was featuring 2 weeks ago or has pitching style changed again?

Here's a full article run by Slate this weekend in response to Penn State "honoring" Paterno before its game last weekend.

@scottmerkin With the loss, White Sox officially eliminated from AL Central title contention.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 18, 2016 -> 01:43 PM) Well I did vote for Obama, so I didn't want Romney to do anything in the oval office. Obama cemented Hillary's victory today by imploring black voters to vote for her. He said it would be a personal insult if they don't. Look for her numbers to rise dramatically starting now. This is about when the media will start pushing hard for Hillary too. Maybe let one week of October pass then the blitz begins. Hillary will win in a landslide. It's like Donald says. It's fixed. Hillary is going to have a very fun next six weeks as she gets the boost the Democratic candidate usually receives come election time. https://www.yahoo.com/news/obama-black-vote...-152203956.html

Ole Miss just got away with two of the dirtiest hits you'll see all year, on the same play, none of them penalized. Cost Alabama 7 points. I can't stand Bama and now I have to root them on this game.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 12:40 PM) 2013 Red Sox, 2009 Yankees, 2007 Red Sox are the only three teams in the past decade to win the World Series after having the best record in baseball. If you wanna crown the Cubs, then crown their asses. But that's why we have the playoffs. I totally just thought "wait a minute, the 2005 White Sox had the best record in baseball". Then realized you added "the past decade" and remembered how long this franchise has been moribund. I can has sad now.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:49 PM) I posted their career PA's to show that one is a finished product and the other is not despite their similar age. And I would have expected a lot more from you than simply comparing career wRC+ of a guy who has played 4+ full seasons vs. a guy with less one full season. One guy is improving and the other guy is arguably regressing. And take out Lawrie's ridiculous cup of coffee, which clearly has been an abberation, and he's closer to a 96 wRC+ hitter for his career (or basically where Saladino is right now). Factor in 2B defense, where Saladino has been the superior player this season (SSS) and I'm not sure what the argument is. Seems like you're expecting Saladino to regress for some reason and I can't understand why. I don't know how you can see an argument that Lawrie is regressing. He looks to me like 100% the most consistent player I've ever seen. His OPS since that cup of coffee you refer to is .718, and it's .723 this season. His OBP outside of that season is .310, and in 2016 it's .310. He's hit the disabled list once every year other than 2015, and he hit the disabled list once in 2016. He's good for something in the range of 100-140 games, and he'll put up a .720 OPS. He's the most consistent ballplayer I've seen in years.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 01:50 PM) I will put money on it right here and now. Regardless of whether or not the White Sox trade Chris Sale this winter, their attendance for the 2017 season will be less than 2016. There's my reply.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 13, 2016 -> 11:12 AM) Eh, doing the right thing for the wrong reasons isn't really that admirable. I'll take it. I wish more places and people would do the right thing even if for the wrong reasons. Make "doing the right thing" seem normal, not out of place, and we wouldn't have to deal with bigoted crap like this in the first place.