Milkman delivers

I haven't seen much gay bashing in my life. I'm from a very close-knit neighborhood and the vast majority of people here are, what I'd consider, close-minded. For some reason though, not too many people seem to have a problem with people being gay.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 01:18 PM) I think Andy Sambergs lampooning of his tendencies in movies sums up why I dont like him for the most part. Although I loved him in the other guys. Especially the parts where he is in total disbelief at how women throw themselves at Will Ferrell Or the Family Guy skit. Mark Wahlberg is confused and angry.

With a hammer? That would take some seriously good vision and hand-eye coordination.

What are the chances that Ozzie takes parting shots at the Sox when he eventually goes? I'd put it around 80%.

Even Cubs fans and Sox fans that don't pay much attention are now asking why Viciedo isn't in the majors yet. I had a few of them ask me why last night.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 07:43 PM) The White Sox have had the fortune of playing KC, Cleveland, and for the most part Detroit 18 times a year the past 10 seasons or so. 84 wins should not be acceptable. Except for 2005 and a couple of other years, the pattern seems to hold true. You think they have a good team. They fall flat on their face, play crappy ball for 3 or 4 months, rally to get back in it and fall apart at the end. They win 83 or 84 games and 5 years later the year is called a success because in the 70s the Sox really sucked. I call BS. Win the division. Make the playoffs. You have had a big advantage over your division foes for years and have squandered it far too often. 2005 is something they will always be able to hang their hat on and rightfully so, but if a couple of crazy things didn't happen against Boston, like a ball going through Graffinino's legs and El Duque, a guy KW didn't even want on the postseason roster not pitching out of a jam, they might still be looking for their first postseason series win in 94 years, and I'm sure Ozzie and KW would have very little support from anyone on this website. I love it when someone so thoroughly explains things like this.

QUOTE (nitetrain8601 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 05:49 PM) Honestly, I would like to see Kenny without Ozzie. I don't know what it would take though. They've severely underachieved since the World Series. We've switched over our roster enough times to where it can't be blamed on the roster any longer. I feel this way, but I also wouldn't mind or care if both were sent packing.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 11:29 AM) Brad Pitt is a great actor...sort of inexplicably, but he is...he's just one of those actors where if he is in the movie, no matter how bad it should seem to be, it will at least be worth your time. Same with Denzel, Tom Hanks, etc. I'm pretty stoked for this now actually. I really don't like Mark Wahlberg, but my brother made me realize that I like almost everything he's in. So, I don't know why I dislike him so much.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 11:20 AM) I liked it, but wasn't hoping to love it. I just wish there was maybe 10-15 more minutes added to the story about the monster part of the movie. Yes, I would've liked more about the monster. With regards to showing the monster, they did it perfectly. At first you saw nothing but knew it was there, then extremely quick glimpses followed by slightly longer shots, and then the full look at it. I could've just used a quick explanation or theory as to why it was there and perhaps why the Air Force was so hell-bent on not letting it leave.

QUOTE (iamshack @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 11:14 AM) But we're really beyond even having to pretend to make logical or rational solutions to explain why the guy is still here, aren't we? I mean, the guy called a reporter a f**, his son trashes the organization via twitter, he insults the fans, his teams are not beating their main rival EVER...I mean, we're past the point of explaining why he still has a job... Haha, this post made me grit my teeth. I honestly can't wait until he's out of here. It will be a great day.

QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 11:24 AM) Manuel Division Titles: 1 Guillen Division Titles: 2 Manuel Playoff Victories: 0 Guillen Playoff Victories: 12 Well, Manuel did only have 6 seasons compared to Guillen's 8. I'm saying that neither one of them is particularly good.

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 11:18 AM) To recap what I said yesterday, what I find most striking is that a single 0-2 stretch, on the heels of a 22-13 stretch, can cause the doomsayers to completely rule this board. Caulfield, you say the "fault lines" between Pierre and Viciedo have emerged this month. Setting aside Pierre's defense (which would be interesting to compare to Viciedo), what about his .286 avg, .365 obp, 4/1 SB/CS did you take exception to over the course of May? Certainly his aggregate stats have been bad, but what would you have had Ozzie do after a single bad month - pull him? After a .286/.365 May, he's going to pull him? Certainly he should be on a much shorter leash given his aggregate stats and regression to slump form maybe NOW, but characterizing this as a massive length of time that Viciedo should have been considered feels revisionist, especially given how people conveniently doubletalk regarding the effects of rushing other folks to the majors. Yes, I meant commensurate. People have been asking for Viciedo since April. Nothing about that is revisionist. And to say that an 0-2 stretch causes the doomsayers to completely rule this board is actually revisionist. It's not all sunshine and happiness when they win a game. Many, many of us are consistently down on the team because we aren't fooled by a win or two. I feel like it's you who is revising history.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 10:57 AM) I think you meant commensurate. Commiserating is what we all do after a Twins series. Now you're backtracking from calling out the entire board, dark clouds and doomsayers to just having "some" faith? Nobody has ZERO faith. It's simply a matter of ZERO FAITH that Ozzie and KW can work together well, efficiently or on the same page. Once again, this month, we're seeing fault lines forming around what to do with Pena/Gray or Viciedo/Pierre or Lillibridge/Pierre. Do you really believe that all the oars in this organization are pulling in the same direction, in complete synchronization? Payroll is only relative to what other teams in the division are spending. Even then, it's pointless. Do the Marlins get some type of "lowest dollar cost average spending per victory" trophy every year? Should we give out first place to the team that manages to make the most profit, or give teams operating with the highest ROI home field advantage in the playoffs? Last time I checked, the A's, Twins or Rays couldn't go out and add $30 million in salaries to their playoff rosters when it came time to face the Yankees, Red Sox or Angels. If you want us to be ranked by efficiency of spending over the last decade in our own division, we're twenty thousand leagues behind the Twins, roughly at par with the Indians (they have 2001-2002, 2005, 2007 and 2011 so far) and arguably only more effective than the Tigers, who are the odds on favorites now to win the division. The Royals, you'll get 10 different answers here....but you can be sure their future is undoubtedly brighter for FINALLY following a plan or strategy, not being distracted from the "master plan" and focusing like a laser beam on the final destination of 2012-2015. You are killing it today, my friend.

So I just decided to go back and check the winning percentages for Ozzie Guillen and Jerry Manuel. .514 (which equals about 83 wins a year) .525 (which equals about 85 wins a year) Not a big difference.

QUOTE (Buehrlesque @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 10:53 AM) My biggest fear Not unlike 2009 and 2010. I wouldn't mind seeing Ozzie sacked right now, but I am completely fine with the playoff mandate: If the Sox win the division, he stays. But if they lose, he goes, period. None of the justifications and rationalizations that enable him to keep his job, like MD mentioned. I'd definitely be on board with Dave Martinez and Rich Hahn. (And if the Ozzie for Logan Morrison is still on the table, that would be cool too!) A couple of things. A simple playoff berth isn't enough to ensure his job (although it likely would). Limping into the playoffs by winning the division with 85 wins and getting trounced in the ALDS wouldn't be enough in my book. The thing is that this team is too talented to finish any worse than ~.500. I've said that many times. A finish like that just shouldn't keep the status quo.

Agreed, awesome post by Caulfield.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 09:49 AM) Just like how if the Sox lose, I hope Pierre goes 0-5, I'm of the opinion that if the Sox aren't going to make the playoffs, I'd rather they win 65 games and get a top 3 pick and get Ozzie out of here. Same here, which is why I know they'll finish around .500. We'll hear things in the offseason like this: "Even with the slow start, they still managed to finish the season with a respectable record. A lot of that has to do with the team having to gel after bringing in a few new faces. I think Ozzie deserves a chance to see what this team can do when it's completely gelled for 162 games."

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 09:44 AM) That's a bunch of BS. Everyone knows that 110% of 58 is 64 Nice.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 06:59 AM) Didn't read the post. Didn't care to. Firing Ozzie Guillen isn't going to win a division; nor is firing Kenny Williams. Can we put an end to these threads for a while? I know people want Ozzie fired, but not right now; that's an end of the season thing; an end of the regime thing. Honestly, even if you put "Discuss" at the beginning of it, and then quote an article - you are the dumbass that decided to quote the article. If the White Sox don't win the division this year, all of those in favor of a new manager will get one; all of those in favor of a new GM will get one. f***, just wait. f***ing NHL just ended. s***. Besides what Sqwert said, I also don't have full faith that they'll fire Ozzie at the end of the year.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 09:40 AM) I really don't understand how Viciedo isn't thought of as a top 10-20 prospect in baseball. I just hope he gets a chance to play for the big league club before Kenny trades him for AJ Burnett or someone.

The Pierre situation is another thing. How can one have faith in an organization that refuses to make the most blatantly simple and obvious move of replacing the worst player in baseball with a stud prospect who is lighting the world on fire?

QUOTE (Jerksticks @ Jun 17, 2011 -> 09:24 AM) We'll all play just the tip, but we don't like it. Awesome! And to ptatc, the total wins aren't as important as division titles.

Ah, the old "we aren't as bad as we used to be, so be happy" argument. You can talk about their final records all you want, but the fact of the matter is that they always do just enough to still fail. Two division titles in ten years isn't sufficient for the team that has had the highest or second-highest payroll each of those years. You can cry all you want about a lack of faith from the fans, but the fact seems to be that KW and OG are gone if/when they fail again this year. And they deserve it.

Haha, I like how Royce Clayton is playing Miguel Tejada.

QUOTE (11and1 @ Jun 16, 2011 -> 10:13 PM) I don't like this approach either, and at this point I wouldn't take that bet. But that doesn't necessarily make it a bad idea. This team needs a cattle prod to the testicles right now, especially WRT to the Twins. They need a Howard Beale Network moment. Someone, anyone--other than their fans-- needs to scream "I'm as mad as hell and I'm not going to take this anymore". If the owner, manager, and GM won't shake things up the players ought to have enough professional pride to do it themselves. Our "five tool" CF, "40 HR the last five seasons" DH and "can't-miss phenom 2B" are, among too many other position players, virtually 0-for-the-season but trot back to the dugout K after GIDP after pathetic pop out as if they are living up to expectations and performing commensurate with their very real abilities. How can these guys not be f***ing furious? At their worthless hitting-coach-for-life? At their stunningly stubborn manager. At their GM and owner for not raining hellfire and damnation on the manager and coaches. At themselves? We've got the pitching. We've got the players. Wheres the passion? Amen!