Milkman delivers

Just walk at the police with a knife or even a gun in hand, keep saying "I'm not a threat", and they'll have no reason to think otherwise!

QUOTE (mr_genius @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 10:45 AM) you should be a police officer

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 22, 2014 -> 10:47 AM) Greg, while graphic, beheadings are one of the more humane ways to go. There is no suffering. cynanide suffocates your body. You may go quietly but I can't imagine it's better than a beheading. That depends entirely on what the weapon being used is. If it's just a knife, it can take several minutes. I've had to watch videos of cartel beheadings. They used a chainsaw for the guy whose answer they liked, and a knife for the one they didn't.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 02:13 PM) In Ferguson, Cops Hand Out 3 Warrants Per Household Every Year A local public defender on the deeply dysfunctional Ferguson court system Warrants are issued by courts. And any individual can get a warrant for someone else's arrest by merely getting a police report and going to the court.

An officer is being approached with a deadly weapon. As soon as a weapon is in someone's hand, the guns come out, no matter the distance. That gap can close incredibly fast. He approaches, and you want the officers to get in their cars, effectively running away from an armed threat? That is laughable. And tasers are not considered deadly force. A f***ing knife certainly is. An officer COULD respond to deadly force with something else, but he'd probably be an idiot to do so. I just can't believe this f***ing buffoon.

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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 21, 2014 -> 12:29 PM) Putting him in handcuffs after he's clearly not able to fight back or resist....probably dead, that's not going to go over well. Normal procedure for every police force in America. Again Caulfield, you are incredibly ignorant to this whole subject. And to whomever brought up the taser, please read my post from a few pages ago. Alpha Dog covered the distance thing already.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) That's true, but like he pointed out, there had to be a mistake made if an unarmed guy is shot that many times. Now if the kid tried to get the cop's gun, the cop knows he's unarmed. I guess if the kid went for the gun, he deserves to be shot and possibly die. But if he shot him should he blast him five more times? And why would they let the body just rot in the street after the kid was killed? I think mistakes were made in any scenario. And this is assuming the kid tried to get the cop's gun? If this is a fact not an opinion, then the kid deserved to die, I guess. Will this ever be proven to be the real scenario? No, in a shooting situation, you're almost always going to have multiple shots fired. And if some of the stories are to be believed, Brown kept charging after being hit multiple times, making the shots necessary.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 19, 2014 -> 12:15 AM) BMags had a great line in this thread when he said: "But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving." I agree wholeheartedly. Greg, I don't normally even bother to argue with you as you're like arguing with a brick wall, but I have to tell you you're wrong. It's like saying "how good of a driver could ____ be?" after they get hit by another driver. You can be amazing at something, but you can't account entirely for other people.

I know there are statements from witnesses that support both sides and this also won't be received well, but many times witnesses have no idea what their rights are or what actions justify certain responses. When witnesses say "they murdered him", it certainly sounds like it's basically an execution. But, their statements are often shown to be outright lies or simply very misinformed upon more questioning. In this situation, a person may watch Brown charge an officer. Brown has no weapon on him, and the officer opens fire. Many people watching this may believe that this is an unjustified shooting. Some will think or reason that "he was only running at him, he didn't even have a weapon, the cop murdered him without cause". And there's definitely something to that, but it can still be completely justifiable. Many of the statements are their interpretation of what happened, not what actually happened.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 07:27 PM) Here is video of the aftermath from one of the initial witnesses. http://www.ibtimes.com/new-video-mike-brow...led-him-1661840 That doesn't really add anything either way.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 07:25 PM) Yes. Gotcha. I referred to that earlier in the thread, so no need to reopen that door.

What part of the story was inconsistent with the earlier statements, though? That he was aware of the robbery?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 07:03 PM) Was the cops story via his friend inconsistent with previous police statements? (Yes) Fair enough, but there's a big difference there. The friend is relating a story someone else told, like the old telephone line game. Pieces of that story can change over time. The witnesses are relating what they saw themselves. And if they said he was shot in the back (which you'll counter by saying they said he was only shot "at" with his back turned) and forensics show he wasn't, then their whole account is now in question.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:58 PM) He's not arrested he's dead. Yup. But it may have been his own doing. And if so, you can't blame the cop. I get what you're saying, believe me. But it's sort of a circular argument.

QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:40 PM) Are these the same witnesses that had Mike getting shot in the back as well. +1

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:37 PM) they also don't show any signs of a previous struggle. My only thoughts are this probably all happened very fast. For some reason Brown turned around in a way that witnesses thought it was by force. Something that traumatizing is hard for the brain to process. He ran, may have been shot at from behind, turned around, started running, shot. I find it hard to believe he "made an obscene gesture" or whatever the wording was, then started bullrushing. And kept going. And at all points, where does the hands up come from? That was an added detail, that was from the first witnesses around the scene on twitter on saturday the 9th. I was following when it happened. Everyone said he was executed. There's more there. The accounts that say there was a scuffle seem to say that Brown was the one pushing the officer into the car and overpowering him. So he wouldn't have many signs of a struggle.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:34 PM) I think anyone that tries to disarm a police officer, or try and shoot anyone, may be brought down with force to protect others. But that's kind of the point. I can't remember the last time one of these happened where the unarmed person didn't either have some sort of object that police believed was a gun, or tried to grab the gun. I'm sure in some cases it happened, but every single time? It's a very intoxicating turn of events from someone trying to prove their innocence. Moreso when the other person can't off their own intent. I have to say, that friends account sounds rather incredible. More rabid animal than teenager. Almost every action paints the officer in the best light (he not only charges, but keeps charging even after shot, so intent on ... bull rushing the officer) But how good of a cop could you be if a jaywalking arrest turns into a dead kid? Surely there was some slip up along the way even if the kid was aggressively behaving. You can be the best cop in the world. You can't change someone's mind if they have already decided they aren't being arrested today.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:31 PM) The forensics say nothing about the likelihood of Brown's movements. The bullet into the top of the head. But, I guess you could say that was from him falling forward after being shot the 5 other times.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:24 PM) Surely we're always going to wonder if this incident would have happened without a police force that was 94.3% white patrolling a heavily minority area (at least 70%+ African American). I'm willing to admit Brown probably had some culpability, it might even be 60-70% if SOME of the accounts are too believed. It's also possible the officer got shook up or panicked because he SUPPOSEDLY almost was disarmed by this huge guy and the flight response isn't possible for a police officer, so the FIGHT response kicked in, as well as his target range training, assuming this is the first time he's fired his gun while on duty. The officer surely has to be thinking of different ways he could have handled this situation without ending up in the loss of human life...just like Tony Stewart's sitting at home having to live with his actions and his contribution to a tragedy. Perhaps he's not going to be held criminally negligent or responsible, but you can be sure the civil trial will go forward no matter what, and a not guilty verdict's going to be as hard to stomach for the local residents as the Trayvon Martin or Rodney King/Simi Valley cases. Fruitvale Station this isn't...but it's one in a long line of seemingly similar incidents that show we still have a LONG ways to go in terms of trust and communication not only between the police and their communities, but also between black and white people specifically. Not only that, but black people distrusting others "representing them" or trying to appease them (Uncle Tom's/sell outs) or make a name for themselves coming from the outside to exploit the situation to their own benefit. The forensics are already showing support that Brown was both facing and likely moving towards the officer. And then you have the background conversation claiming there was a scuffle and that Brown charged him. I don't care what the racial makeup of the department is, if those things end up being true, it's 100% on Brown.

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:15 PM) Right, phew. Glad the officer cleared that up for us. I get what you're saying, but how else would you suggest he handle the situation if Brown actually did attempt to disarm him?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 06:04 PM) You are right about that. Nobody in AMERICA will believe it either. The officer is going to have to "take one for the team" on this one and go to jail for 30 years. The people probably won't think that's enough and riot some more if it happens. I like caufield's posts. The last 4-5 posts anyway. Nice job. Amen brother. Haha, he should just go to jail because people will want him to, even if he did nothing wrong?

QUOTE (bmags @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 05:52 PM) Yes, we have a lot of retrospectives from this cop apparently. What's Mike Brown's side of the story? If he tried to disarm an officer, his side of the story doesn't really make a difference.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 05:48 PM) And you sound so gung-ho to go into Ferguson and bring some good 'ol fashioned law and order...at least I presented some evidence that MIGHT exonerate the officer, if it was actually truthful. You aren't giving ANY benefit of the doubt, at all... The last place I wanna be is Ferguson, believe me. And you're insinuating that I wanna go beat some protesters because I'm telling you it's incredibly dumb to expect someone to make even tougher shots when his or her life is in danger? No, I'm simply telling you how it is.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 18, 2014 -> 05:39 PM) Who just so happened to be doing some kind of victory dance or celebration in the middle of the street with their $49 worth of stolen cigars. Because obviously no one else in the city would have the right to holding/carrying cigars in their hands, so it was very convenient that the officer just so happened four hours later to find those two still carrying around the cigars instead of smoking them, handing them out to friends, etc. Again, whether or not he was aware of the robbery is moot. They were walking in the street, which is illegal and already justifies the stop.