TheBigHurt

Serious? If so, I can't wait to see it (for laughs mostly. I am NOT enthusiastic over Ozzie being here for 5 more years, but Mariotti will likely go apes*** as always).

Two thousand and f***ing twelve??? Wow. I can see the Mariotti articles now... And hey, reading quotes from you guys in RedEye was awesome.

Uh, no. All anyone else has done is ignore what I'm really talking about. I find it funny the only "argument" that has been at ALL relevant to my point has been "all managers make mistakes like these." I understand no manager is perfect, but that's a poor argument. First off, just because other managers do dumb things doesn't make Ozzie any better. Poor argument #1. Furthermore, you're all saying every manager makes moves as dumb as shifting and staying shift to a .198 batter who tries to bunt, constantly leaving ailing pitchers in against good hitters (both actually and statistically), constantly taking cruizing pitchers out early, constantly failing to do his homework on what matches make sense, putting Hall at 1st base, etc.? I don't buy that for a second. Ozzie simply makes bad moves TOO often.

One word: wow.

When will anyone ever come in here with logic? You keep questioning my demeanor and my "opinions" instead of looking at the real picture, the reason I'm doing all this debating: OZZIE. Not a SINGLE person has come in here with a solid argument or a statement that argues that the moves I mentioned Ozzie making are bad moves, simply attack me in ways that are irrelevant. Until someone can come in here and prove this wrong, just please stop. PLEASE try some logic and stop posting inept, redundant posts. I'm talking about Ozzie, and you all agree talking about me and have not provided a single solid argument. Wow, this feels like a board full of Cubs fans. Agree to disagree? You can disagree all you want, but it doesn't make you any less inept.

fact (fakt), n. 1. something that actually exists. 2. something known to exist or to have happened. 3. a truth known by actual experience or observation; something known to be true. Those moves I mentioned are bad, and that's a FACT. What is so hard to understand? Furthermore, if no one is going to actually make a logical point instead of simply contradict what I'm saying and spout meaningless one-lined "clever" posts, just don't bother with this conversation anymore, because you obviously have no comprehensive skills.

I keep explaining WHY it's fact, and all anyone does is simply say it's not. No reasoning whatsoever. Must I reference all the bad moves I've mentioned throughout this topic again and again? Yes, it is FACT that most of the examples I gave were BAD MOVES. At this point, I could care less about other people's denial and ignorance. Like I've said, some opinions are NOT always valid, and some opinions ARE fact.

Probably the biggest comeback this year, and the Sox actually win it! I am forgetting that the Sox are in last place right now. I can't help but smile after this win.

It usually goes the opposite way.

Yeah, it's a weird atmosphere. This type of situation is not something were really used to...

What's with everybody and Tampa lately?

Yes. And like fathom mentioned Hall, how could anyone say that wasn't Ozzie's fault? Hall is not a first-baseman and shouldn't have to dive for balls constantly. Not saying one game necessarily makes this happen, but look what DID happen. it just made no sense. Steff mentioned, "sure, people can deny if they want to." Sure they can deny something that's true, but it's flat out stupid. Opinions aren't always valid. Sometimes they are simply inept and frankly, wrong. Ozzie has done so much to hurt this team this year alone it's sad. That's fact, not opinion. You wanna used the term "generalize?" People seem to use the word "opinion" too loosely. Is it an opinion that putting Toby at 1st wasn't a smart move? Is it an opinion that shifting for a .198 batter and then keeping it on when he tries to bunt isn't a smart move? No, that's fact. All you need is a little baseball knowledge to realize it. And surely many people here MUST have far more baseball knowledge than myself, but lately people in this topic make me actually question that.

If I see another f***-up at third base I'm gonna scream.

People, people. Don't misinterpret me. Please point out where I ever said this whole season was Ozzie's fault. I never said that. I just said that Ozzie's bad managing was a PART of the problem, and no one can deny bad managing takes a bad toll on a team.

Jesus H. Christ, how many of you ACTUALLY watch the games? Maybe I'm not as ignorant a fan as I thought. How do I know he mishandles the players? I WATCH the damn games! And I know there are a lot of people on this site that actually know it. And I'm the one with the BAD memory, and even though most instances are vague in my memory, I rememebr that they happened. So in addition to the hideously managed Contreras game I mentioned, I remember a couple of times Pods shouldn't have been in LF and was (the infamous head bonk play), TONS of times the outfield setup was hideous, Buerhle and Garland being taken out in the 6th or 7th when they were rolling (while an ailing Contreras giving up runs like crazy often lasts longer), numerous horrible pitching changes that benefited the hitter (statistically at the very least), etc. It happens ALL THE TIME. So you're telling me most or all managers lack as much attention to detail and make as many horrible moves as Ozzie does? Boy, some of you must be on the Sox payroll. You can say a better bench coach is the solution whether it is or not, but the point is as it is now Ozzie is not a great manager. Period. You can't tell me too many other professional managers would have handled that Contreras situation the same. No freaking way. Yep, I'm just another poster. So are you. EXCELLENT point, my man. That was such a nice shot you took at me. Thanks to another poster for trying to come off as intelligent only to make another ignorant, contradictory statement. Just stick to trying to talk baseball and not get personal. You might actually come across as professional to some people (although you probably still do, sadly). This is why I don't join in on the complaining of Cubs fans. Sox fans can be just as bad.

Okay, so maybe atrocious is a little harsh. Very bad most of the time might be a better way to put it. So many people that say they watch every game and yet think he's really good. LOL. Maybe you missed my post and example. Seriously, he quite often defies common baseball sense. How is that NOT a bad manager? When you constantly mishandle your players and even the plays, that's bad. And I'm definitely not the only Ozzie critic here. I can't remember every bad thing he does (probably because he does it so much), but those that I do remember or simply remember times when they were done were really bad, and I've seen a lot of outrages over his bad managing quite often, especially this year. Since he seems to have less talent this time, I guess his lack of ability has been highlighted more and more.

What is a generalization? "Ozzie is an atrocious manager who makes a LOT of mistakes" is NOT a generalization. it's a fact. YES, Ozzie does have limited talent, but isn't a majority of this "talent" still here from the 2005 team? So you're saying that if Ozzie leaves Jose Contreras in for 8 innings until he gives up, I think 3-5 runs in a single inning, and puts the shift on a guy batting .198, and the guy bunts it down the line foul, and then the shift stays put (that was such a poorly managed game it's ridiculous)... this is all because the PLAYERS lack talent and ability? RIIIIIIGHT. LOL. I AM a casual fan, but I guess that makes me completely ignorant and means that I never know anything? That if I see obviously horrible management that I don't know it? That was a low blow and you know it. Absolutely irrelevant. That single-handedly takes away any substance you actually have in the argument. I find your post falsely reasonable. I know damn well what I'm talking about. Seriously, if you CLAIM to watch a lot of games and need examples of Ozzie's bad management, you simply aren't paying attention, know absolutely nothing about baseball (again, coming from me that's pathetic), are in complete and utter denial, or are an Ozzie fanboy. Or a combination of these.

I just see that you are supporting Ozzie with no backup to your apparent statement that he's a good manager, and a laughable "you need to watch games," when anyone actually watching them can see he's atrocious. Just sayin'.

LOL. If you don't think Ozzie is an atrocious manager, then you are a pot calling the kettle black and it's YOU who need to watch games. I have watched nearly every game this season, and the last 2 seasons. I don't recall every detail of every one, but you don't need to remember every little detail to know that Ozzie is a brutal in-game manager, and the less magically the team works together and gets wins, it becomes more and more obvious. I can think of a few very poorly managed games in the last couple weeks alone. I don't hate him or anything, but Ozzie supporters have a tendency of being really delusional, and this coming from a more casual fan that doesn't obsess over statistics and constant analysis. Anyone with a brain can see that Ozzie can't manage his way out of a bag. I'm in no way saying he's the sole reason the Sox failed this season and last, (when you need to go to the pen and the only good thing in it is Jenks and maybe Wausserman/Logan, it's not easy), but he's a big contribution to the failure.

The Legend of Timo Perez lives on.

I think you need glasses.

By now people might know that I am a Cardinals fan (Sox and Cards = completely anti-Cubs), so I'm rooting for them (went to a Cards game last month, too), and other than the Cards, I'm rooting for the Phillies (one of the reasons is obvious). Also, I REALLY want the yanks not to make it to the post-season (yes, I'm a Yanks troll). Go Boston!

Holy s***! How many of these have we had over the last month??? Jose! Thome! AJ! Uh, everyone! Thank God. A 2 game win streak for Jose. Hmm...

Wow, a possible win? A possible victory for Jose Contreras? A possible WIN STREAK for Jose Contreras? A possible SHUTOUT? A possible SHUTOUT in a game where JOSE CONTRERAS pitched???

Who needs examples? It's been a CONSTANT. Just ask fathom if you want numerous examples. I can recall a horribly managed game which Contreras pitched in... I think last month. I can recall numerous games of mishandling pitchers, pinch-hitters, etc. you name it. It seems fairly commonly known that ozzie seems to not do his homework fairly often.