mr_genius

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 02:28 PM) OK, here goes. Here it is, in all its glory, the NSS health care plan. This is the framework for what I'd like to see, eventually, though I am fairly certain it won't happen for any number of reasons (mostly political)... --Government should not be running any health care plans, at all. --Employers should not be the ones to provide health coverage either. --Health insurance should be a private market product, just like car insurance. --Health insurance should be REQUIRED for all US citizens and residents. --Health insurance providers would continue offering various plans, but to the public generally. --Health insurance plans need to reflect cost of care - in other words, you shouldn't be paying $25 for any doctor visit. You should be paying $20 for tier 3 doctors, $30 for tier 2, $50 for tier 1, etc. - to reflect actual cost AND allow for real competition to occur (prescriptions are going this way now anyway). Insurance plans should still have a personal spending cap, under some plans. (this one is probably the hardest to make work) --Those who cannot afford regular insurance would need to prove why (income, loss of job, etc.) in some fashion, and then be eligible for a pool, which is covered by all insurance providers on a persons-parallel-with-market-share model (like the utilities do with infrastucture costs in deregulating). The pool costs should be supplemented by the federal government to lower cost, but the plans available should essentially be low-end plans that are truly only a safety net, providing just protection from huge costs (kind of like we made the welfare system less appealing in the Clinton years). --Tax incentives should be large to encourage not-for-profits in all areas of health care - insurance, hospitals, etc. Having NFP's present will help keep overall costs down in the sector. --Insurance providers need to be federally licensed, not state, and be required to clearly publish the number of providers in their systems in each region/city/state/whatever, so that people can make educated decisions about making their plans. --All insurance providers required to provide emergency care at ANY licensed facility in the country at any time, at their given rates, period. --No pre-existing condition restrictions allowed under any plan. --HSA rules need to change to NOT have a use it or lose it policy, and additionally, allow for all health claims to go through that account and be eligible for being non-taxable dollars. --All medical providers required to pre-clear all tests and procedures performed (except in situ for emergency medical), and show actual cost to the patient before performing. --All medical records need to be housed in a database, medical ID cards issued, no more forms and s*** that just take time and cost needless money. --All EMS providers and emergency rooms need to handle emergency medicine for anyone coming in the door - the rest can be sorted out when the person is stable (this is mostly the case anyway, but not always) --No person in the country illegally should be provided insurance, under penalty of fines. If hospitals want to treat patients not properly ID'd, that is their risk to take (emergency med may need to be an exception here). --If any minor ( ETA: --College students currently in school full time should be eligible for government-supported access to the pool plan. ----- That's what I have for now. Not perfect to be sure, and probably not possible, but the best thing I can come up with. That's pretty good list. I salute you. but this should be US citizens only. people here on visas need to be covered by their employer.

QUOTE (Y2HH @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 01:07 PM) The bill/bills/multiple bills being 'crafted', 'drafted', or otherwise 'created' is/are/will be riddled with double talk and extremely vague language (such as in the examples above), with words such as, otherwise, explicit, except, related, without regard, extraneous, etc., which translates to the following: It can mean whatever they/we/us/them want it to mean. That's why it's longer than War and Peace. That's why for every fact check there is a counter fact check because the language contradicts itself with meaningless babble, for example, affordability credits, whatever the f*** they are. ^^^ and that is what is pissing me off about this whole thing.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 01:01 PM) The bill does not forbid them from buying health insurance. It does not guarantee them coverage, provide them coverage at a reduced cost, or give them an unfair advantage in any way. Why would a bill forbid anyone form buying health insurance? That makes no sense. Now, they shouldn't be able to get the US government public program, which makes perfect sense.

http://www.cnn.com/2009/POLITICS/08/27/hea...ants/index.html Of course, US citizens only... but we aren't checking to see if anyone is not a US citizen.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:54 PM) Because its not in any proposal, any bill, or being advocated by anyone in a position of power or influence?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) I'd imagine they'd pay the same rates as anyone else purchasing insurance through the HCE, either a public or private plan. They're not providing it to them for free or at a reduced cost. Keep tilting at windmills. The public plan is going to heavily subsidized, there is no way around it. The plan has to insure people whom are 'high risk'. People whom the private insurers charge a lot for as have actuaries that determine the probabilities of cost. I'm not even against helping insure people in need, but I'm against this madness that non US citizens should be able to buy into this.

QUOTE (BigSqwert @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:47 PM) Do you have me on ignore? Great, I hope what you posted is in the actual bill.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 12:40 PM) Except that, as has been detailed here, no one in Congress is suggesting doing that, and nothing in the bills put forth so far do that either. Its 100% straw man. Now, if it were in there somewhere, then I'd agree its a legitimate debate, and I'd not want to see it happen. No, there is a good chance that the Democrats will try to get non US citizens covered by some US public plan. It's is a legitimate point to bring up as they are still 'crafting' this bill. Why is this so hard for you guys to understand?

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 31, 2009 -> 07:09 AM) I'm really failing to understand why your option, not giving illegals the option to Purchase (to buy goods or services with money), is better. Because, as you said, we end up paying for their care in the end when they go to emergency rooms and don't pay. Isn't it better for everyone if they're paying into the system? And, really, why shouldn't they be allowed to? What's so morally outrageous about this? Are you intentionally ignoring the fact that what they pay into this system will only cover a fraction of the costs associated with covering them? If they want insurance, they can buy it from a private company. It is not the role of the US government to provide health insurance to the globe. You guys are out of your f***ing minds.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 10:58 PM) rather than screaming "Death Panels!" "Immy-gants!" Etc., which has been so bloody effective over the last month or so. It's a legitimate debate as to whether it is the role of the US government to insure all foreign nationals. Your attempts to marginalize the debate with a lame "err immygants!" is very Palin like, my friend.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 09:43 PM) They're eligible to buy a plan in the HCE. Just like they're eligible to purchase bread at the grocery store. Its illogical to make conclusions based on unsupported premises, like illegals being guaranteed coverage. I'm still waiting for something indicating that illegals WILL RECEIVE health care free-of-charge, because complaining that they'll be able to pay for coverage is just too ridiculous to address. This program will not be able pay for itself with premiums paid in. I think we all realize that paying into this program is not like buying a loaf of bread.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 08:40 PM) 2) The article you linked to says that the bill allows illegals to participate in the Health Care Exchange, meaning they can buy health insurance, including the public option. It does not indicate any sort of mandate or guaranteed coverage. See, that is the backdoor in this. Obviously this health care plan will have to be heavily subsidized by the US government. There is no way that taking on high risk patients is going to be reconciled financially without either high rates being paid in by participants of the system or massive amounts of government help. I would suspect the former is what the public option would be. So basically, yes, they are guaranteeing government provided health care for non US citizens. People are wary of this plan because basically they know they aren't getting the entire story. The Democrats wanted to 'get it passed fast' so people wouldn't know some of the expensive or unsavory details.

Obama is dropping fast in the polls http://www.gallup.com/poll/122513/Presiden...ing-Varies.aspx at 50% in gallup It's going to be interesting to see the immigration reform battle.

QUOTE (Tex @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:21 PM) Governing with restraint. When the political tides turn, I hope the GOP acts in the same measured, prudent, manner. I haven't seen any restraint in governing for years. Unfortunately it's been a whiny, sold out to bribes, make excuses, blame everyone else, train wreck of a two party system for a while now.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:13 PM) It's simple and we'll see if it gets done after the recess. It's called reconciliation. That only requires 51 votes and most of the public option bill can be passed with that legislative tool. We'll see if the Dems go for it.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 01:03 PM) Actually, they currently have 59... and until a couple weeks ago, only 58 available to vote as Byrd was ill. That includes two senators who do not belong to the Democratic party, one of whom hasn't been a terribly reliable vote as of late. You're not going to get 100 dem senators. If they can't get stuff done when they completely control the government it's their own fault. Just put another Kennedy in the final 60 seat. There would still be problems passing a health care program. So many excuses, nothing is ever the Democrats fault. It's getting old fast. Maybe they should address unemployment then fix health care.

QUOTE (Rex Kicka** @ Aug 30, 2009 -> 12:53 PM) The Democrats won the election - and in 2008, they won it largely on the basis of these ideas. They also won it largely on the basis that they would work with anyone willing to contribute. The Democrats have been willing to compromise on a lot of things, and have worked to find common ground with the GOP - so much so that they've even started to alienate a good chunk of their base about it. However, there's only so much bipartisan work that can be done when the only compromise the opposition is willing to accept is "no." The Democrats have 60 in the Senate and completely control the house. A Democrat is president. The fact is the Democrats are not even together on health care.

wow that was an amazing play

QUOTE (whitesoxfan101 @ Aug 29, 2009 -> 12:56 AM) I don't know a lot about Mr. Kennedy. But if this is true, wow. "Haha, hey guys, did I ever tell about the time I was driving drunk and killed my friend? IT WAS HILARIOUS! "

lol

Bruney sucks. GO SOX

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 28, 2009 -> 08:56 PM) I feel a Damon 2 HR game coming... no

QUOTE (The Ginger Kid @ Aug 28, 2009 -> 08:52 PM) frank is by far the greatest sox player in history, IMO. Position player? Robin was a pretty complete player. Frank was an absolute f***ing monster in his day

well here we go