LVSoxFan

I define successful as making the playoffs unless it's some crazy year where some division rival is on fire and even though you won 95 games you still didn't get through. I mean, what can you do in that situation? That said: everything about this year reeks of FAIL, save for PK's stats. When your home record sucks, fail. When you get hammered by division rivals, fail. When you can't score with RISP, fail. When two of your most expensive players suck ass at the plate, fail. In fact, there's not much we did right at all this year, except demonstrate with screeching clarity that spending record amounts of money =/= winning baseball. In fact we're kind of the poster child for that this year.

What would be the "Ozzie problem" to which you refer?

Well okay but that's b.s. and unprofessional. Now he's insisting the Sox do favors for his family just because he's him. I remember this, and if Ozzie's kid was any good they would have PICKED him--why wouldn't they want to have a Guillen in their minors? On that count, I have to side with KW.

If they are both still here in 2012 I will be floored.

Freddy Garcia? What's the summary on what was spilled on that?

Interesting. I Googled the news from back then and found this: Ozzie Guillen is back with the Chicago White Sox, this time as the team’s manager. The three-time All-Star shortstop was hired Monday to replace Jerry Manuel, who was fired Sept. 29 after the White Sox failed to reach the playoffs for the second straight year. Guillen has no managerial experience and has spent the past two seasons as the third-base coach for the Florida Marlins. But he made it clear how badly he wanted this job, and his passion won over general manager Kenny Williams and owner Jerry Reinsdorf. Former Toronto manager Cito Gaston was thought to be the initial favorite for the job. Williams played for him, and he led the Blue Jays to World Series titles in 1992 and 1993. But in the end, the White Sox went with one of their own. I thought the part I bolded was very interesting, considering our recent history. The plot thickens!

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 12:58 PM) I think the seed was planted before Day One with Jerry pushing Ozzie onto Kenny when KW wanted Cito. OK this I did not know. I thought that KW was the one convincing JR that Ozzie was the guy. Do tell!

QUOTE (Steve9347 @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 12:36 PM) The MLB Network show bloated egos to the point of disrepair. I never saw the show (didn't have cable) but wouldn't that be something? It seems every "couple" that does a reality show ruins their relationship. Why should KW/Ozzie be different?

QUOTE (Greg Hibbard @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 12:34 PM) Thome vs. Kotsay. Aha! You may be right there, and that would explain the Thome incident. And, it would explain why after the Kotsay year what did KW bring in? A very Thome-type DH. Well done! I like that answer.

Even if he doesn't can you imagine? Ow. Right on the bone?

I'm curious about this and what many of you think since many of you pay a lot more attention than I do. IIRC, so KW interviews Oz I dunno, around the end of '03 and decides to take a chance on him. So '04 comes along, Ozzie settles in and then prior to '05 KW wants to go all in on smallball/smartball/Ozzieball whatever you want to call it which, at the time, did bring him a fair amount of ridicule. That and some then-eye-raising signings like Dye (too injured!), Pods (same!) and Iguchi (who?!). But Ozzie was on board the whole way and lo and behold in just his second season, bang. Everybody's happy. What a perfect pair, right? 2006 was cruising along until the ASB and then went over a cliff (which still astounds me, but that's another thread). For me personally the first crack appeared during the Soxfest where KW appeared to throw Ozzie under the bus for Thome not coming back. Ozzie seemed surprised by that and that's when I first thought: WTF is going on? Why would he do that? And it's of course been downhill from there. Or was it the whole Oney tweeting/firing? Or is it simply that when the team continues to fail, they both started fingering each other? And going to Daddy (JR) about it?

I'm not holding my breath to see what the Sox will get in return for Ozzie.

Oh wow I missed that. Yeah, I'm sure after taking that awful one in the calf last month (I was there) he's getting pretty damn tired of being hit by pitches.

Hey, children of divorced parents: Remember when that seemed like the scariest, worst outcome of all? But at a certain point the relationship between the two of them was SO acrimonious that not only was it not scary anymore but you kind of HOPED for it? That's where I'm at with KW/Ozzie right now. I see no benefit in them staying together, for them, or us or the team. Here's a thought: would you even WANT to come back to this team next year? It's the Ryne Sandberg dilemma: sure you didn't get the job but aren't you glad you didn't? Because the Cubs were absolutely f***ed on paper even before 2011 began so you're basically picking who gets to captain the Titanic. And what's to inspire confidence in 2012? We are stuck with Dunn and Rios, period. Beckham is floundering. Who knows what we'll get from Peavy or who will even remain on the pitching staff. If I were Ozzie, I'd go quietly, talk about how everybody needs a change of scenery, and say nothing but great things about the White Sox and the organization. Because you never know--a few years down the road, it's possible you could come back here (quit screaming everyone). Not like that hasn't happened before. Where this all goes sideways is if KW pulls the trigger on Ozzie and it erupts into a back-and-forth media war as Ozzie slinks out of town and God knows what Oney will start tweeting when that happens. But enough. I wouldn't mind seeing both of them gone. But this relationship is OVAH. You can't work in that kind of a situation, and it shows.

QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Sep 21, 2011 -> 07:53 AM) I'm surprised he didn't last night. That was as pissed as you will ever see PK. Whoa wait. What happened last night?

I'm fine with that. Do players have that? Their own personal hitting coaches?

QUOTE (greg775 @ Sep 20, 2011 -> 12:50 PM) To me this thread says ... I respect Paulie, but ... he disagrees with me even though he works with Walker every day and sees Walker do his job every day, so he's wrong. Problem is, once you get past Paulie, where's the success? Beckham sees Walk every day, as does Morel, Rios, Dunn, etc.

I totally respect Paulie but as somebody pointed out: Paulie's the only guy who's actually delivering. We have been over Walker here for years here. Back then I used to give him the benefit of the doubt. No more.

Me too.

How can you call it anti-climactic? We crushed all year, almost fell apart in September, then rallied at the end... then crushed in the WS/playoffs. I couldn't have been any more storybook than that. Since then it's been slim pickins though. Granted the Blackout game was WS-like and I had the privilege of being at The Perfect Game, which ranks #2 behind the WS in all-time greatest moments. Now... anyone have any other ideas about that pic? I'm at a loss!

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Sep 15, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) I have a framed photo of it from when I was a kid at my parents, I'll see if I can dig it up! You are the man. It's gotta be out there somewhere. If it was iconic enough to put on the wall at the park, I gotta imagine it's available somewhere.

Damn this thing is hard to track down! You'd figure if it makes it onto the wall at the Cell it should be around somewhere!

Hello White Sox brothers: On a more upbeat memory, I'm trying to track down that awesome pic of whom I believe is Kirk McCaskill waiting for the catcher to jump on him by the mound after making the final out in the 1993 AL West clinch game. It's up on one of the ramps at the Cell on the South side of the park. But damn if I cannot locate it anywhere, no matter what I Google. A poster would be awesome, frame-able pic would suffice. Any ideas? Many thanks. I figure if it can be found, somebody here knows where.

Is it safe to call Lilly--if we take Paulie out of consideration, who's a lock--the 2011 Sox player of the year? I mean this guy just DEFINES hustle, spirit, enthusiasm, ability--you know, everything that's missing from the 2011 Sox. Sorry to see him out for the season but doesn't that just go right along with how 2011 has been. Lilly: my favorite player of 2011 by far.

You know what would be fun, to go back and find all the pre-season predictions to see where everybody had us.