NorthSideSox72

QUOTE (flavum @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 08:30 PM) If they need a 1B NRI, Dan Black is more likely than this guy. QUOTE (GreenSox @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 09:35 PM) And he's 26. They had to send him back down to A ball mid year last year. But he raked A ball. Most likely Dan Black and Andy Wilkins are the 1B/DH's in Charlotte (AAA) next year. Barnum probably is in Birmingham (AA), with Jacobs playing the role Marrero did this past year (1B/DH, mostly DH). Danny Hayes at 1B in Winston-Salem (A+). One of the rookie ball guys at Kannapolis, none of them stood out really. That's your 1B/DH depth chart as it stands today.

QUOTE (Andy the Clown @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 12:43 PM) 2B is a much bigger issue. QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 12:51 PM) Not defensively, though. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 12:54 PM) Nope. Sanchez should grade out to an above average defensive 2b. I know the Sox want to go with Micah but as I said in a different thread, I'm perfectly ok with putting Sanchez there even with his s***ty bat if he can be a good 2b defensively. People seem to be assuming it will be Sanchez. IMO, as long as he looks pretty decent in ST, I think Micah will get the nod, with Sanchez and Saladino in the running for utility role(s). QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 01:16 PM) If Saladino really can play an above-average ML 3B, I'm all for that. Still, if his bat can't be at least a 90 wRC+, we're one injury away from a real problem over there. I don't know his defense at 3B. He's decent at SS and 2B - OK range, good arm (assuming it comes back healthy), not flashy but playable. I think having Davidson in Charlotte helps. Even if he still struggles, he is very likely to do better than last year offensively (would be hard not to). And he may do a lot better. Though he's never been thought of as strong defensively. Sanchez and Saladino should both be able to play there in a pinch. The system does lack a truly strong defensive 3B though. All the way up and down, it lacks in that area.

QUOTE (Iwritecode @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 11:40 AM) With Konerko retired, this is the first time ever that I’m older than every single player on the White Sox 40 man roster. Until they sign Ichiro.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 11:08 AM) Conor's throwing will always be an issue. Could be, but what makes you sure? Some players defense, certainly including 3B's, improve over their first few years in the majors. Conor has plenty of arm for the position and his glove work is passable. The footwork, which has resulting in throwing problems, is a pretty good candidate for being fixable.

Welcome to SoxTalk! QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) Welcome to the site. I think you may be exaggerating the effect a bit, but I agree that the defense (in general) is worrisome, and Gillaspie is bad there. I would LOVE for the Sox to prioritize acquiring a right-handed bench piece that plays a good defensive third base, so that we could at least go with a frequent defensive replacement late in games. I agree on the exaggeration, and that Gillaspie has been pretty bad over there. But want to add two things... 1. Since his major issues, in my view, are with footwork... I think there is a decent chance he can improve. 2. I'd like to suggest a player already in the system - Tyler Saladino. He has played all the infield positions and is good enough arm and glove-wise to play them all competently, he's a RHB who tore up LHP last year in Charlotte, he's cheap and versatile. He's also got a little speed, and he's a guy Ventura said he really liked a couple years ago. Assuming he's healthy for ST, which supposedly he will be, he's a decent option to be Gillaspie's foil vs LHP and a general utility guy.

Also, 64-0 M-F? Jeez. I knew it was bad, but that's really bad.

QUOTE (farmteam @ Dec 18, 2014 -> 08:04 AM) When I was 16 the White Sox won the World Series. YOU'RE 113 YEARS OLD?!?!

Hahn has said, publically, that Viciedo is likely to be with another club. No way he says that unless they are damn sure he's going out the door. They are likely just waiting for the best offer they can get for him.

QUOTE (bigruss22 @ Dec 17, 2014 -> 01:10 PM) Yea I was 16 when I joined, I've spent a 1/3 of my life on this site When I was 16 no one outside researchers at a few universities had even heard the term "internet" before. There certainly wasn't a World Wide Web.

Ah, I see one other person has joined me in the 42-47 bracket. The old fogies. For the record, I JUST turned 42 a few days ago.

QUOTE (Brian @ Dec 17, 2014 -> 08:16 AM) Sausage fest Are you surprised? That's actually one thing that has bothered me for a while. I expect this to be a male-heavy site, but I think we've gone so far that there are hardly any women posting at all. Getting rid of the Hot Chicks thread might help that, but not sure what else would really help.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Dec 16, 2014 -> 11:00 PM) Is he he even going to play full season ball this year? Probably not. More likely he's in Great Falls, and if he does well there, maybe he sees a late season Kannapolis visit.

Melky likes things.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 03:48 PM) You guys have great voices for radio. Do you guys have the faces to match? I definitely have a face for radio. QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 03:53 PM) What prospects do you think are going to break out in 2015? I personally give my vote to Micker, Luis Martinez and Trey M. Who needs to have a big year? How does Spencer Adams project? Is this the farm has been in recent memory, even with the Shark trade? When does Carlos Rodon join the rotation? These are great, thanks! QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 03:57 PM) Who smells more...Dan, Matt, or Blake? In all seriousness, since we all know the answer is Blake...What prospects has the general public written off that we shouldn't and why? We don't have smell-o-vision over Skype yet, nor have we made a visit to North Dakota (more's the pity).

We're going to record our final podcast of 2014 this week. This is your chance to throw any questions you want answered our way. Dan, Blake and I will answer some of them on the podcast. Let 'em rip...

Full season renewed. We've been season holders since 2004. Still front row UD, above home plate, 3B side. Our group usually sells about half our tickets, some on Stub Hub and others to friends (face value for those). We try to break even on the games we don't go to. Usually we do, but the last few seasons we have been short about $50-$100 per seat (our discount on the games we go to offsets that though). I'm thinking this year we'll break even easily.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 02:19 PM) Where else will they build in 2029? The land currently is a parking lot. Again, there is zero way to even guess where they might find land for it in 2029. Who knows. Neighborhoods can be come ghost towns, large factory properties close, etc. At any given time there are large lots out there. I mean right now, even in relatively desirable areas, you've got the massive Finkle Steel plant property in Lincoln Park opening up. There's a large lot along the Chicago River next to Elston just south of Division. The list goes on. There is just no guessing right now, and there is certainly a chance the changed ownership group may have very different ideas of how to grow by that time.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 02:20 PM) In 2014, as a team, we ranked 28th out of 30 teams (Cleveland / Houston ranking below us) w/-61.7 rating. Tigers were 26th at -57.9. 25th worst team was Rangers at -24.5. It is safe to say we haven't done anything to adjust our metrics that significantly (barring substantial improvements with our existing talent pool, most of which would be very difficult to project). Bottom line...I find very little reason to believe we will suddenly be close to middle of the pack (again...unless Connor / Melky / Avisail all make substantial improvements). Just not feasible, imo. Also, if you look back over the last 2 seasons, we rank 27th, so it isn't like last year was an outlier. Ive already noted the areas I think they've improved, and I see very little in the way of negative offsets (again leaving out pitchers, I am not sure how to best evaluate for that). I'd bet they are more like 20th this year - below average. That's not good, but it is improvement. I think you need to balance all this. The team has made marginal defensive improvements. They've made a substantial rotation upgrade with an elite prospect around the corner, they've made a couple big stabilizing bullpen acquisitions, and substantially upgraded the offense. They've improved in all areas, it just happens that the improvement on defense is the smallest.

QUOTE (thxfrthmmrs @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 01:35 PM) I don't really agree with this. To say someone is an upgrade over Viciedo defensively isn't saying anything at all. While better than Viciedo, Melky is still a huge liability rather than an asset defensively. What you are saying here is I don't want the worst, but having anything better than the worst is acceptable. IMO defense takes talent more than anything, especially if we look at UZR which factors in range heavily. A player like say Conor Gillaspie could improve their fundamentals, make smarter throws in certain situations, or play the bunt better, but his range or his arm will never improve, which I think are the keys for a good defensive player. You generally don't see players with terrible UZR for most of their career suddenly becoming good defensive players over time, there could be an outlier season here and there, but that's usually not the case. FWIW, Gillaspie went from -2.9 UZR to -8.1 last year, my bet is he won't do much better this year. Out all positions you mentioned, I think improvement will most likely come from catcher position, as fundamentals, knowledge, and arm plays a huge factor, and I think Tyler does have what it takes to be a good defensive catcher. 1B should be an improvement, but it won't have significant impact on overall team defense. The 35 year old LaRoche has the reputation, but he's declining every year. Avi keeps on rounding out in RF, I don't think you could expect much improvement from him in terms of range and defensive runs saved. On top of that, we all saw Alexei losing a step last season. To sum it up, we have huge liabilities at LF, RF, and 3B; what is now league average defense at SS and 1B. 2B, CF, and C are the only positions we can expect good defense out of. I think collectively this is still one of the worst defensive teams in the league. First, I totally disagree about SS being now league average. Unless Alexei falls off a cliff he will again be well above average. Second, think of defense as money. Going from awful to mediocre has value, just as going from mediocre to good, and good to great. Third, not sure what you mean by "acceptable", as I'm not the GM. I am talking about what is possible. It seems hard for me to believe a team with above average D at SS and CF, somewhere around average (give or take) at C and 1B, a ? (neutral) at 2B and below average at LF, RF and 3B can be among the worst in baseball. That simply doesn't make sense. They will be below average, they won't be at the bottom. It goes without saying we all would like to see better.

Well let's start with this. Here is the latest Top 25 in the system, which was mid-season before recent trades (so no Ynoa or Garcia, but also you'll have to ignore Bassitt, Ravelo. 1. Carlos Rodon 2. Tim Anderson 3. Micah Johnson 4. Courtney Hawkins 5. Spencer Adams 6. Francellis Montas 7. Matt Davidson 8. Tyler Danish 9. Carlos Sanchez 10. Rangel Ravelo 11. Trey Michalczewski 12. Micker Adolfo 13. Chris Beck 14. Cleuluis Rondon 15. Jacob May 16. Jace Fry 17. Trayce Thompson 18. Kevan Smith 19. Andy Wilkins 20. Scott Snodgress 21. Keon Barnum 22. Adam Engel 23. Tyler Saladino 24. Jordan Guerrero 25. James Dykstra Others who got votes: Chris Bassitt, Mike Recchia, Brett Austin, Jefferson Olacio, Jason Coats, Antonio Rodriguez, Jake Jarvis, Luis Martinez, Taylor Thompson, Andrew Mitchell, Kyle Hansen, Omar Narvaez, JB Wendelken, Andre Wheeler Also bear in mind this list doesn't include guys outside Prospect status technically but that are younger guys who are likely to be a part of the future, i.e. Erik Johnson.

QUOTE (StrangeSox @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 10:05 AM) I think you need a mix of both TNC and SC-style conservationism. Sierra Club and others like them have achieved important legal and policy victories, including being instrumental in blocking the plans to put some dams in the Grand Canyon and Dinosaur national parks. They have done some good, you're right. But I think they also do some bad. I feel the need to illustrate two examples of what I happen to know some detail about, that TNC is done, as my version of "this is how you do it". One big, one small... 1. Back in the early 90's, the owners of the Grey Ranch in SW New Mexico were considering selling. That ranch covers more than 300,000 acres in an area that many consider the most key geographic location in the continental US for ecological diversity. The SW NM and SE AZ corner area (called Malpais Borderlands locally) has more species of mammals, and more endangered species generally, then anywhere else in the lower 48. And the Grey Ranch has the unusual character of covering land from the valley bottoms all the way up to mountain tops. As soon as word got out, the government (wanting to preserve it in some way) and local ranching concerns (wanting to keep it in circulation but also keep out the government) began fighting over it. The Nature Conservancy ignored both, went directly to the ranch owners, and bought the whole thing. Even more novel, after letting it lay unused for a few years while they conducted studies to fully understand the territory, they then engaged the local ranching community. The result: the land is now ranched again (cattle and sheep), but in a sustainable way. The ranchers are caretakers, the land is owned by a local not-for-profit now, and TNC simply consults and does scientific research. Everyone won. 2. On the smaller scale, they are good at getting little wins, including one near some property I happen to own in New Mexico (thus why I know these details). A family that owned a ranch which includes a saddle and greenway between two mountain ranges (Mangas and Horse), with one of them being part of the larger Gila complex and all it's ecologically important species. Anyway, again the rancher was considering selling. TNC came to an agreement with the ranch to create a permanent conservation easement along the saddle, covering about 20% of the ranch. No new development is allowed within the easement (a couple existing dirt roads and wells/mills can be maintained as needed), filed with the state. TNC paid, essentially, the degradation value on the property for the existence of the easement, so the ranchers lose nothing. The rest of the land they can do with as they please. Again, everyone wins.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 12:37 PM) Melky is a below average defensive outfielder by all defensive metrics. Def rating (Fangraphs) was -12.1 for Melky w/Steamer projection of -13.2 (2013 was -11.5 and 2012 was -5.8, 2011 -5.2, and 2010 was -15.7). That is a 5 year average of -9.2 so anyway you slice it, dude is below average in the outfield. Viciedo was -17.4 in 2014 with a Steamer of -5.3 (however if you project it out over a similar # of games as Melky it is -13.4 or roughly identical to Melky's steamer of 13.2). Viciedo was -12 in 2013 and -10.2 in 2012. Bottom line, Melky Cabrera is not a very good defensive player. Now these projections would make you think they are nearly equally as bad, but I don't think Melky is actually that bad. I'm not really going to get into back-up depth because at that point, impacts are minimized. Re: Gillespie, he was the 4th worst 3B in baseball last year by those same defensive metrics and if you normalized his games played with the people ahead of him, he would slide up to 3rd worse with Castellanos and Chisenhall being the only players who were worse. Got to at least be nice knowing we have the 3rd worst defensive 3B but 2nd best in our division No doubt this is not a good defensive team as constructed. Other than Alexei and Eaton, no one else is above average. I'd contend Flowers is average. 2B is up in the air, so let's exclude that until we know who is there. That leaves LF, RF and 1B as below average (and in two of those three cases, I think the team has improved a bit for reasons mentioned earlier). It is a below average defensive team, but one that is better than it was last year, IMO. By the way, here is something to think about - how good are the Sox starting 5 pitchers defensively? I really don't know off hand, and the metrics may not be consistent for that position anyway. But it has an effect. Sale, Quintana, Shark, Noesi... how good are they defensively?

QUOTE (bmags @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) I'm interested in this "Robin gave Conor a bigger glove" thing. It seems ridiculous enough to work. I imagine Conor was still wearing his little league glove as self-punishment. I didn't see every error he made, but I did see some, and the majority of them were problems of footwork and throwing hitches.

The team has not ignored defense, that's an overstatement. Cabrera is a large defensive upgrade over Viciedo, LaRoche is a good defensive 1B who will play there some of the time, and a guy like Brantly is better than Phegley can provide (and better pitcher handling than a young Nieto). So there have been upgrades. I'd also suggest that 2B is an open question - Sanchez would be better than Beckham was I think, but Johnson would be a downgrade. So that is an unknown. Also worth noting - Abreu looked a lot better as the year went on, and Gillaspie has improved a little in my view. Flowers has improved quite a lot. So even in static positions there have been some positive trends that look good. The glaring defensive holes now are 3B and RF. I just don't see any other major defensive holes now. That doesn't seem that bad.

QUOTE (ewokpelts @ Dec 15, 2014 -> 10:57 AM) the next sox stadium will be on the site of the last sox stadium. That I'm not so sure of. But really, such an event is probably decades in the future, so it is difficult to even begin to predict what neighborhoods, property prices, etc. will look like at that time. People often forget this, but neighborhoods change, sometimes dramatically, in periods that long.