ScottyDo

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 01:12 PM) I think people are excited for Semien like they were excited for Beckham in 2009. If Beckham were doing what Semien is doing, you're damn right people would be upset because there's 2500 plate appearances worth of sample to see that he would be repeating himself again. With Semien, people see talent and it's a change, and the grass is greener sometimes. Like I said, if the team feels it's best that Semien get sent down, that's fine by me, but I'd personally like to see him up for the remainder of the season. It's similar to the Santana/Jimenez discussion this offseason where one of those players may be superior at this point, but I'd like to see if the one on the team can be a long-term answer or if the Sox need to do something. Obviously, I'm not in control of that, but if Semien ends the year with a .725-.750 OPS, then I think it's safe to say we are looking fairly good at 2B. We have a large sample size from Beckham and the outcome is predictable. I know this is not an objectively validated opinion, but don't you think we could have learned from Beckham's experience that it's worth spending some time in AAA? Literally nobody in this thread is saying they don't like Semien. It's just that he's not performing well enough to think he's playing at the appropriate level for his development.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 12:40 PM) Semien is 18th in the MLB in P/PA right now at 4.27. Getting pitcher's counts up high and allowing the teammates to see what kind of stuff does have intrinsic value and is part of the reason the Sox offense has been as good as it has. I'm not arguing that. That's true. But in terms of personal development, it's not doing him any good. You'd expect his walk rate to be higher along with his high K rate if he was demonstrating growth along with his P/PA rate. I could probably walk up there and get 4 P/PA if I never took the bat off my shoulder. But I'd also have like a 95% K rate.

QUOTE (shakes @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 12:27 PM) If Semien has been flat out terribe, than Beckham's career is flat out terrible. Sending Semien down so Beckham can play defeats the whole purpose of this season. Semien should be given time to adjust, like any young player should. I can't figure out the argument that Beckham and his 2500 plate appearances needs more time to show what he can do, but Semien has sucked in a SSS and should be sent down, even thought their numbers are the same and Semien does everything else better. The Sox have been using this season so guys like Semien, Viciedo, Garcia, Gillespie, Webb, Johnson, Eaton can gain some experience and they can gage what they have for the future. Struggles with young players are going to happen. They need time to work through them and see if they can grow. Semien has a lot more to gain playing at the MLB level than he does in AAA. All of those guys have demonstrated better mastery of AAA than Semien. If Semien had shown that he had nothing left to learn at lower levels, then I agree: ship off Beckham for a bag of balls and let Semien develop up here. That's not the case.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 12:23 PM) Somebody please make an argument for Beckham being an everyday player. Semien is striking out because he works counts and he's seeing a lot of these pitchers for the first time. He's not going to learn to fight off major league pitching in AAA. Working counts is leading to Ks, not BBs. Anyone can work a count into a K. Semien had a .806 OPS in limited AAA at-bats. He hasn't exactly demonstrated that he's learned all he can at that level.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 12:20 PM) 8 Danks 5 Semien 3 Abreu 0 Dunn 9 Viciedo 6 Ramirez 7 De Aza 4 Beckham 2 Flowers 1 Quintana 7 Davis 4 Kinsler 3 Cabrera 0 Martinez 9 Hunter 8 Jackson 5 Castellanos 2 Holladay 6 Worth 1 Scherzer EDIT: Thanks for showing me up ScottyDo No problem! I do things right about five times a year so I gotta take advantage while I can.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:59 AM) You said he earned the position and shouldn't lose it due to injury. He hasn't come close to earning a damn thing. I did not say that. I said Semien has done nothing to stick. He has been flat-out terrible so far with the exception of a few well-timed HRs. If those HRs happened in different situations, Semien Fever would be a low simmer. He's got plenty of potential but he still has a LOT to learn and can do so at AAA.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:55 AM) This s*** is like Level 61 fanboyism What is? You're strawmanning like crazy here. Nobody said Beckham is a good player.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) So Alexei Ramirez was lucky in 2008 and now in 2014? All those walk/BB totals from the minor leagues are going to balance out too...he's not going to have more K's at the major league level than Hawkins at W-S, for example. It's not like rookies just maintain a flat or level statistical curve in season-long projections. Dayan Viciedo has something like only 11 K's and 5-6 BB's now. Who would have projected that? Or Flowers? Odds are that Semien's walks will increase and K's decrease, it's on the back of his minor league cards. No. It's not luck when you hit well in all situations. That's just good hitting. Luck is when you suck really bad but happen to come through 3-4 times with people on base and late in games.

QUOTE (shakes @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:48 AM) So, Beckham gets to struggle in the minors and it's meaningless, but Semien and his 94 at bats should be viewed as a final product? Great argument. Nevermind, that Semien and his poor start are right on line with Gordon's career numbers. Semien already shows a better understanding of the strike zone, he projects as a better base runner, defender, and is more versatile. And you know young players can get better. Imagine that. We don't know what Semien's ceiling is, but we already know Beckham pretty much sucks. The only thing I'm interested in seeing is how Gordon responds to competition and actually having to earn his job. Dude's got a ~30% K-rate at the major league level. Beckham's career rate is less than half that and has never reached 20%. Don't get me wrong, Semien projects to be better than Beckham for sure, but let's not pretend like he's got nothing left to prove at AAA.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:40 AM) He's 18th/25th in OPS, for qualified 2B. WAR, he's 9th at 2B for the majors, albeit small sample size. Clutch wise, he's hit three huge game winning homers (if we had a bullpen to lock those wins down). How many game winning hits does Gordon Beckham have from 2009-2013? 10-12? Luck. You know that. Furthermore, way to cherry pick. Beckham had game-winning hits his first season, too. Semien's OPS is sub-.700. He's done nothing to hold down the spot. If his offensive performance was even Leury Garcia level, you'd have a point. The old maxim "you don't lose your position due to injury" is overplayed and overrated, but Semien hasn't performed well enough to combat it at all.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:37 AM) Garcia does things the vast majority of infielders can only dream of. Bobbling a few balls doesn't change his tools. I've never seen anything like the Beckham apologists among Sox fans. You guys make Team Brian Anderson look like cynics. Yeah, re-read the thread and look for anything close to a glowing review of Beckham.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 11:31 AM) Ramirez played a ton of CF in Cuba and was scouted at that position (in tryouts), along with SS/2B/util infielder. Semien hasn't played LF or CF in the minors at all. If he did at CAL, I'm not aware of it, but would have to look up his collegiate numbers to verify. Does anyone expect Beckham to resemble anything close to hot offensively after that rehab stint? 220's average with minimal power is what we're all pretty much expecting with that oblique. There's no reason for anyone to suspect anything after a rehab stint. There's just no link between rehab stint performance and ML performance for anyone. Good players have terrible rehab stints all the time. I'm assuming since Beckham is back that his oblique is no longer bothering him, because obviously there was no rush to bring him back. He might perform well, he might not. Something seemed to have clicked towards the end of last year and that may continue. Or it might not. Who knows? Just give him his last shot and ship him out of town if he fails. Semien could definitely benefit from playing in AAA still. His performance so far has been far from good, despite timeliness.

I mean, you can't really cite a guy's rehab stint at AA when he's got a track record of better (but not good) performance in the majors over several years. The fact is, Semien has hit in a timely but overall crappy manner. Beckham's going to continue to get his last shot.

Updated lineup has Beckham at 2b and Semien at 3b

I do wonder if we'd feel the same way about Semien if his hits didn't happen to be clutch.

QUOTE (Ozzie Ball @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 06:39 AM) His UZR is marginally positive at +2.5 over 4 seasons (+0.625/year), but with a negative range rating (-6.5 over same period). Not a statue.

QUOTE (Hawkfan @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 01:29 AM) How much input does the pitching coach typically have on deciding who the closer is? Depends on the pitching coach? Does coop get media questions about who the closer will be or is that only Robin? I can't remember the last time we had a closer issue, and I've never thought about it. Coop was asked about Lindstrom as closer after Cleto came out to start the 9th in the 14 inning game. He was very prickly about it, in standard Coop fashion. I imagine he has a fair amount of input but not final say or anything. He definitely pretended to support Lindstrom, FWIW.

QUOTE (Jake @ Apr 24, 2014 -> 01:05 AM) I'm totally okay not putting a young guy in the closer role without at least a partial season of seasoning. It's worth losing a few games over. I think this paid off with Reed, for instance. Webb has the makings of a very good closer, but he's also a guy who was pretty much off the map 18 months ago. You don't want the pressure to bring back his non-strike-throwing demons or whatever else tends to happen to overwhelmed young guys thrown into that spot. Let's get him comfortable and confident in MLB first. This. Especially with the fragility of this bullpen. Can't take another guy falling off the wagon right now.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 23, 2014 -> 11:19 PM) Beckham has about as much range as me sitting on my couch after 5 bong rips and a Las Asadas super burrito. Meh, he's got a positive career UZR. It's not definitive or anything but dude's got a fairly solid glove and can get there better than you give him credit for. As for the popups? Yeah, he's got those on lock.

QUOTE (TaylorStSox @ Apr 23, 2014 -> 10:28 PM) That, the crouched stance, the hitch in his swing, bad luck and the statuesque range at 2nd. Was with you till bolded. We all knew Beckham would get his job back, this is no surprise, but it's not very awesome (unless he somehow rakes).

Defensive positioning FTW!

QUOTE (Buehrle>Wood @ Apr 23, 2014 -> 03:59 PM) We made 2 terrible shifts last night that lead to the Tigers big inning. As with any defensive positioning, you win some, you lose some. You just try to win as many as possible and lose as few as possible. How many outs would be missed by NOT shifting when you could have? Given enough data, you can calculate the optimized position based on odds. I'm sure that's what they do. But that doesn't guarantee someone will hit it where you'd like them to.

So for the people who want PK to retire mid-season, why? Who do you think needs to be on the big league team that's not already here? Nobody's knocking at the door.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Apr 23, 2014 -> 02:19 AM) I want to know if he's embraced his role in the dugout or if he's still acting like a regular player. Is he just acting ready for when he gets called on? Or is he teaching, etc? With this role, he should just retire. It's stupid. How do you know it's not beneficial? How do you know the newfound patience Viciedo's displaying isn't due to Konerko's mentorship? It's really easy to say "it's stupid" when all you see of Konerko is the sporadic at-bat, but you'd have to see what's going on in the dugout and clubhouse to know whether it's truly a stupid role or not.