southsider2k5

QUOTE (daggins @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 09:49 PM) I think the point is that none of those guys panned out. I know each prospect is their own person, etc, but Jake Peter is just a guy right now. I think I see three major leaguers on that list, right?

QUOTE (QuickJones81 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 09:01 PM) Can someone explain to me why home runs are so rare, and hitting seems to be so far behind pitching in general in that league? It strikes me as really odd because I feel like that country is more known for producing exceptional position players. You are talking about 16/17/18 year old kids down there. There is a lot physical maturity still be to be had. They are glorified high school sophomores, juniors, and seniors.

QUOTE (BaconOnAStick @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 06:04 AM) Anyone worried? I sorta am, particularly with the sudden loss of power since the break. No. Not at all.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 9, 2014 -> 09:17 AM) Can we at least be a little patient with the guy who has played like 3 games in 4 months and is rehabbing a major shoulder reconstruction? Oh, you must be new to Soxtalk!

This is unwatchable. And not because of the Bears play for once.

QUOTE (VAfan @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 05:02 PM) This is the point that I think is TOTAL BS!! The team was "SUPPOSED" to lose in 2014?? If Rick Hahn told Jerry Reinsdorf and Kenny Williams that "I HAVE NO PLAN ON WINNING IN 2014, AND IN FACT, MY PLAN IS TO CONTINUE LOSING IN 2014" what do you think they would have said? Like any good boss, they would have said -- come back to me when you have a better plan. You may sit here as a casual fan and spin out 5 years plans and hypothetical trades, and fantasize in August 2014 about next year's lineup, but I GUARANTEE you that's not what Rick Hahn's job is. That's not the reality of running the Chicago White Sox. In the real world, the Chicago White Sox have to try to compete every year, even if they are also rebuilding to strengthen their club for the future. They aren't the Cubs, who get a perennial pass and adoration from clueless fans regardless of the crappy teams they put on the field. So, Rick Hahn did a lot of things this offseason to both rebuild the team, and get it to compete for a playoff spot in 2014. If he didn't care about the latter, there are a lot of things he wouldn't have done, because they have no future with the club. Why keep Adam Dunn? Why not just dump him for as much salary relief as you can get? Why keep De Aza? He's also got no long term future, and is the highest paid outfielder on the team, as a BACKUP! Why re-sign Paul Konerko for another year? He's going to retire at year's end. Why dump money into signing Downs and Bellisario and Paulino? None of these guys could be expected to last even if they pitched as well as they had in the past. Why not unload John Danks at the trade deadline for salary relief, even if you get nothing back? More money to spend in the future. Why is Gordon Beckham still here? You might be "HAPPY" about a Sox team that is going to miss the playoffs again, and is sinking like a rock now that the complete collapse of the bullpen has sapped any remaining chances the team had of making a late season run. I see a team that had tremendous POTENTIAL, that could have made the playoffs in 2014 with a better bullpen plan and a better manager. When that potential is undermined and lost, I'm disappointed. And I think the guy who put the plan together deserves to be criticized, because with a better plan, the team could have made a run. As I said earlier, I think Rick Hahn would AGREE. I'm guessing he's learned a lot from the mistakes he's made, and isn't planning on repeating them. Um. Yes. That was exactly the plan for 2014. This team had .500 potential, maybe a few games over if things went mostly right.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 04:39 PM) The travel is a hell of a lot less extensive and they don't play nearly as aggressively either. I just have a hard time believing that the Japanese circuit is more physically demanding than the major leagues. Pitchers also pitch every 7 days there.

QUOTE (Vance Law @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 03:35 PM) Bleacher Report predicted that's where he'll sign in the offseason on a one year $12.5 million deal. Over two years???

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 04:17 PM) Rodon cannot be traded ... Not today. But soon enough he would be in the PTBNL window.

QUOTE (Jose Abreu @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 03:06 PM) For Ginacarlo? I'd consider it... That and at least $200 million to keep him around.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 03:15 PM) Im sure Hahn bases all of his moves on responding to moves that the Cubs make IF Hahn is making moved that Merkin or any fan/sportswriter wants to see, he needs to quit today.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 02:38 PM) That's what White Sox fans do. Otherwise, we would be Cubs' fans. Bruce Levine was on the Score this morning, and he was seriously floating the idea out there that Reinsdorf only cares about the team not losing money/profitability for the owners/board of directors, and that lower payrolls and the state/local subsidies that kick into place when the attendance sinks to below 1.5 million (or maybe it's 1.2-1.25 million, something like that) will give the Sox a lot less incentive to make big moves in the free agency market....sort of saying they're going to still be profitable as the 28th team in attendance, and can follow the Loria/Marlins/Expos blueprint. Except this team lost money last year. Great job Bruce.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 02:15 PM) Greg has a good point about the defense. Other than Ramirez and Eaton, we don't have any above-average defenders. Arguably, we'll be getting worse next year with Avisail Garcia and possibly replacing Alexei Ramirez. That's not exactly a recipe for success when you're building a team around pitching and just enough power to be middle of the pack. I noticed you didn't mention Viciedo or Flowers. There's good reason to play pro's and con's with both those guys. One positive is that Beckham and Dunn will be gone and we can finally move on, along with Konerko's retirement. The page can finally be turned. Plus, we have increasing reason to be concerned about John Danks' contract. As I said, it isn't perfect. The idea that a full rebuild could be done in less than one year is lunacy. Big picture, things are better, and the organization is moving forward. It is waste of time to still be complaining about details.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 02:21 PM) They don't care about falling attendance, because as soon as they are even halfway decent, hello sellouts. They knew going in that it would take a while, and that attendance would fall. It's no surprise. Baez is up to continue his development, as they feel he is ready to start that process. And they aren't looking to succeed short term, if you mean next year. He had one year left on his contract. They got assets for someone they weren't going to compete with next year, and either weren't going to sign after that, or will have the ability to sign him (or someone better) in 2016 anyway. It made perfect sense. It would have been stupid not to trade him. Therefore, the timeline went absolutely nowhere by trading him. So if the timeline isn't for years, why start the Baez clock now? That just knocks time off of the control window you have for him.

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 01:51 PM) The rebuild isn't for the fans, it's to win. If the whole "showing progress" was for the fans, like I said, this rebuild would have never happened. They aren't going to take so long with a rebuild and then just say "let's f*** up this guy's development, the fans deserve to see him woo." Right or wrong, they made a move based on his development. Their logic on Sep 1 and not waiting was fine. They wanted him to get a bunch of at bats, not just a month, not just a cup of coffee. If he was going to come up Sep 1 anyway, this is for more development. Like fathom said, if they ahead of where they thought they'd be at this point, they start moving the guys up. You know there are going to be growing pains, playing him 2 months this year and then next year is fine. Plus, you see how he adjusts and you see if you slot him somewhere, want to move him, etc. You're looking at a long window coming, not a 1 year window. They can't wait and bring up every guy at the same time. The big assumption there is that nothing changed since the day that they started the rebuild. One thing did change. The Cubs are now in their 6th straight season of falling attendance. With the amount of debt that ownership took to buy the team, and then looking at the extra money they are wanting to pump into Wrigley for their remodel, it is pretty easy to see a need to sell more ticket and generate some excitement before 2015. If this was purely about the rebuild and trying to put together the best possible window to succeed, Baez wouldn't be here today. If they were really looking to succeed short term, they wouldn't have dumped their last top line pitcher for more prospects which push the timeline back.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 01:27 PM) Obviously things are a little bit better, but let's see the last six weeks play out. I kind of disagree. 1B-Yes you are right. We have a star. 3B-Maybe. Unfortunately because of Gillaspie's defense, the verdict is still out. He has improved hitting wise. Still not a lot of RBIs. CF - Yes he's good, but LF and RF are still question marks. Farm system - I thought all our outfield candidates were busts. People have been blasting Semien as being a bust as far as being a future starter. What down there is so great besides Rodon? Is Micah very good or not? Most importantly - Pitching. Sale and Q are the only ultra reliable starters. Rodon is the next ace type hopefully. And the defense is projected as remaining lousy with A. Garcia coming back and Tank still out leftfielder with a sieve at third base. Who replaces Lexi? My point is, if the Sox continue to tank and finish about 15 below .500 is the optimism still there? I think Fathom's recent post is more accurate about having 5-6 very good players and the rest below average. Well no kidding there is still work to do. This is a rebuild. No one said it was all done. This is more to the ignorant idea that someone Hahn failed this year.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 01:01 PM) I still struggle to believe that Billy Beane wouldn't have $4 million to spend for the rest of this season by claiming Adam Dunn, especially after they just removed a middle of the order, high power, high strikeout bat in Cespedes. So what is the theory of why he is still here?

QUOTE (SoxPride18 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 12:59 PM) What if Hahn was able to get Giancarlo???? We'd be giving up Rodon +. Does that interest you?

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 12:47 PM) Exactly. The team was SUPPOSED to have no shot at winning. The fact that a bunch of stuff went better than expected should make us HAPPY, not make us b**** about not having an elite bullpen. Let's not be spoiled children. This could be a fun offseason and a fun 2015. I think I was one of the most optimistic people on this team, and for the most part, the biggest pieces of the rebuild have gone incredibly well if you look back to where we were 14 months ago. -We have our powerhitting star 1B. -We have a very solid starting 3B -We have both a leadoff hitter and CF, who is also a pretty darned good defender. -The farm system is deeper than it has been in what... a decade? A year ago Carlos Rodon was a wet dream. Now he headlines our system. -Sale is still Sale, Quintana is still the feathery serpent, and Cooper can still create starting pitchers out of thin air. -This has been a super unusual injury year, and that has hampered a lot of our players and progress. Looking at the big picture, the state of the union is positive. Is it perfect? Obviously not, but I know that no one expected a title team in a year, or probably even two. This organization is moving in the right direction. I don't think they are wasting too much time on the minutia of things, and have a plan that they are sticking to. The fans might not like it, or even understand it, but so far things are going about as well as can be expected after having a 63 win team last year. I'm guessing another year down the road we can look back and see many other problems solved.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 12:09 PM) I am well aware of how the systems works. My point is, if all the guys have already been put out there, that means either all of them cleared, or were claimed and pulled back, considering it has already been over a week since the deadline. I was hoping at least Dunn would be a goner by now, but he probably cleared. Just because guys have cleared waivers doesn't mean anyone else wants them. I spend all day reading about how these guys all suck, but yet there is some expectation that other teams want our pile of suck? I don't get that. Posters aren't smarter than GM's. If people on Soxtalk have figured out players suck, so have the GM's.

QUOTE (Brian @ Aug 7, 2014 -> 08:36 PM) Agreed on 42. So melodramatic. To be fair, 42 probably toned down a lot of what actually happened. That was a pretty hateful and ugly situation.

Did Avi drink Jobu's rum?

QUOTE (IlliniKrush @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 10:58 AM) Show progress for what and to who? This isn't for the fans. If it was for fans, they would have never started the rebuild. This is to get Baez more experience and break him in with a couple months. Again, they will have money to sign pitchers and they have so many assets that they could also trade for pitching. I don't think they are going for it in 2015, which is why they moved him. All these guys aren't going to be in the lineup to start next year, but could be scattered as the year goes on. They got more assets for a piece they weren't going to compete with next year, and either weren't going to re-sign or could sign after 2015 anyway. It is absolutely for the fans. They have generated more buzz in the last week than they have in years. If it were about the rebuild, these guys wouldn't be up until Sept 1 at the earliest, but more like the Super2 deadline in mid-June next year to maximize control, and the window they are trying to open with the young talent to all come together. Knocking a year off of guys control time shortens that window and makes the rebuild harder.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 10:28 AM) There will be big "failure/the end of the chapter" stories written about Dunn and Beckham if they depart, but that will be about it. That is also when we learn if there is any dirt on those guys.

QUOTE (ChiSox59 @ Aug 8, 2014 -> 10:19 AM) Yea, it is really hard to believe the SOX haven't put several of their players on waivers. I would have imagined the Dunn, Danks, Beckham, De Aza would have hit the waiver wire within days of August 1. Why the wait? You can bet they have. The difference is that our front office doesn't leak this stuff, and the local media isn't determined enough to find it out. Odds are that by now the entire team, or close to it, has been through waivers.