WCSox

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:16 PM) So in other words he's already perpetuating falsehoods as fact. After 3 years Danks will be eligible for ARBITRATION meaning Boras will still have to wait another 3 years to get Danks his big payday. So in other words, this shouldn't become a problem until 2013, assuming Danks is still with the team at that time and the planet isn't run by giant, cyborg ants or some s***. Wouldn't Boras be involved in negotiating Danks' contract during the arbitration-elibible years? That's what I was referring to. If not, my mistake.

QUOTE(diegotony06 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 03:00 PM) So in 3 years the we let Danks leave, just so we don't have to deal with Boras? Nope, we'll deal with him. But thankfully we didn't have to deal with Boras when drafting Danks.

QUOTE(rangercal @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 02:22 PM) This is Mark Buehrle people. You're right, this is Mark Buehrle. Not Randy Johnson or Roger Clemens in their primes. Not even Johan Santana. We should be upset that his days in Chicago are numbered. But we shouldn't tear our hair out and scream in agony. We'll get over this, just as we got over Blackjack and Alex Fernandez.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:30 PM) He's signed for 2 more years for a guaranteed $11M. He's incredibly overpaid considering his mediocre production. His defense isn't really what you want in CF either. Crisp isn't Willie Mays, although I've never found him to be deficient defensively in CF. Then again, I haven't seen much of him since he went to Boston. But, yeah, two more years until FA is a problem. The fact that he's already overpaid and won't sign an extension for anything reasonable is another.

QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:48 PM) Seriously, Pods hit the nail on the head. So it sounds like what's going on in the clubhouse is what goes on in a lot of offices in the "real world": The workers feel uninspired, care more about picking up their paycheck than their output, and sleepwalk through the work day.

Ron Schueler built a "strong" farm system? Not sure I agree with that, especially with regard to pitching.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:20 PM) And KW should be fired immediately. KW trades Neal Cotts and Ross Gload for his relievers. He doesn't trade Mark f***ing Buehrle. Not sure about Crisp, either. I'd love to him him in CF, but isn't he only a couple years away from free agency?

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 01:05 PM) Crede also had this back issue last season and had his best season ever. If you actually thought you were going to contend this year then sticking with Crede was the right thing to do. Not only that, but it KW may have no had much of a choice. Crede began having these back problems in July of '05, IIRC. And the talk of him possibly needing surgery was common knowledge last Fall. Who would want to trade anything of value for a Scott Boras client in need of back surgery? My guess is not too many GMs.

You can throw the gloating Cubs fans a 100th anniversary party next season.

KW is responsible for our farm system going to crap. I don't have a problem with the rest of what he's done.

QUOTE(thedoctor @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:59 AM) to clarify, i don't think i'd ever think it was ok to tell someone to go to hell or whatever. but i think that has more to do with being a general a-wipe or not than being a good or bad fan. my point is more addressing going to games vs. not going to games, or venting/obsessing vs. tuning the team out. in reality, those are the choices that the great majority of fans have to make, not the great minority which post on internet message boards. So perhaps its more accurate to say that people who vent/obsess are just immature, rather than bad fans?

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:58 AM) Meche's past involves injuries and flukey nonsense. From here on out, he'll be much better than Vazquez. LOL, I forgot to add that Vazquez is less injury-prone. Thanks.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) thats funny because vazquez was tied for 32nd in the league last year with 14 QS, only 2 behind buerhle and contreras, and 3 behind garland, and i think most people would hesitate to call a guy who has a 4.15 ERA with a 1.12 WHIP, 10th in the leauge in Ks, and is on pace to eat up 200 innings a bust...... Even his 4.84 ERA still ranked 31st in the AL last year. Considernig that there are 14 teams in the league, a simplistic analysis would suggest that Vazquez was arguably a high-tier #3 starter then. I consider him more of a low-tier #3 (or maybe high-tier #4 in a bad year). Either way, he's a pretty decent pitcher. QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:35 AM) look, chris young is a great young talent, but people blast vazquez way too much...beyond his fluky streak where he couldnt get through the 6th inning last year, hes been a pretty solid pitcher for the sox....not an ace, and not great, but hes been pretty valuable

QUOTE(SoxFanInDallas @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:21 AM) So, the sox homegrow Buehrle and Garland, and will eventually lose both. They've both been in our rotation for the past 7 years. What's wrong with that? It's a much better strategy than having them on the payroll for an additional 3-4 years after they break down. Do you disagree with JR's strategy of trading Blackjack and Alvarez, and letting Alex Fernandez walk? How'd they do after they left the Sox? Me too. We won a championship with them and didn't have to mortgage our future in doing so. LOL, wrong. And probably washed up at this point of his career. Not only did we dump the remaining $10 million on his salary, but we also got Gio Gonzalez back. QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:25 AM) Let's stop trashing Meche. He's a quality pitcher who's overcome a lot. The Royals were foolish to sign him because it's unlikely that they'll be too competitive with him short-term, but he's a quality pitcher, and he's better than Vazquez, IMO. I disagree... Meche's career WHIP and ERA+: 1.422, 100 Vazquez's career WHIP and ERA+: 1.267, 109

QUOTE(SoxFanInDallas @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 11:01 AM) That was my mistake. But, it supports my case more. If Gil "effin" Meche can get a 5 year deal, what is the deal with the White Sox? MB is a much better pitcher. The market warrents 5 year deals for pitchers of his quality. If KC is stupid enough to bring up Meche to that level, it's going to drive the whole market that way. We can't rely on ONLY keeping pitchers during their arbitration and before years (Danks) and players other teams are trying to dump (Vazquez) If people like Gil Meche are getting 5/55 on the market, I'd much rather use KW/JR's strategy of developing our own pitchers and trading for guys that other teams are trying to unload (Garcia, Vazquez, Contreras, etc.).

QUOTE(SoxFanInDallas @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 10:51 AM) I really don't understand this reluctance for giving a pitcher a 5-year deal. Granted, there is a big risk if he does not perform. But, the same can be said about a position player. Reinsdorf and Williams have two options: Sign a proven pitcher like MB to a 5 year deal (plus he is a fan favorite) rather than trading him and getting stuck with a 3-year deal and get a Gil Meche quality guy. Guys who suck get 3 year deals in this league now. Um, Gil Meche signed a five-year deal as well. And I'd take Vazquez over him in a second.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 10:27 AM) My point is that the Chicago White Sox got exactly what they deserved when they signed Navarro to that contract over Clemens and Navarro blew up. Navarro had a history of putting up 5 and 6 + ERAs and then he has a couple of good years with the Cubs and we say, "Hey, let's sign him!" Agreed, but let's not pretend that Clemens was a hot commodity on the market back in the winter of '96. Many GMs thought he was done. And his very sudden return to glory has been attributed to chemical enhancement by some. Schueler was definitely an idiot for signing Lamie, but I don't blame him for not being able to predict Clemens' career taking a sudden (and suspicious) 180-degree turn in '97. I like Mark a lot, but I'm not going to confuse him with Randy Johnson circa 1998. I don't know what kind of numbers have been discussed between KW and Mark's agent, but I have to believe that Mark isn't going to take anything less than 5/80. And with all due respect to Mark, I wouldn't pay him that kind of money.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 10:19 AM) Jamie Navarro is not Mark Buehrle's equal in any sense. I never said that he was. My point was that JR won't give a big-money, five-year deal to ANY veteran pitcher, ESPECIALLY after the Navarro fiasco.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 07:42 PM) We must not be watching the same games then. Cause to me, he looks like a rookie. +1 QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 07:43 PM) His D has been just fine so far....why do people make it sound like it's been a major issue? His D has been unspectacular, but adequate. He's living in the defensive shadow of Crede and Ventura, which doesn't help. I think he'll be fine in the long run.

Do you guys remember the last time that JR allowed his GM to give a pitcher a five-year deal? Do you remember what happened the last time that JR allowed him GM to sign a pitcher to a four-year deal? Mark is as good as gone. Time to move on.

QUOTE(striker62704 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 08:15 AM) What GM hasn't? He won a title, which is the goal. Agreed. KW may be far from a genius, but he made the right moves leading up to 2005. Given this organization's post-season history, THAT carries more weight than anything else. And LOL and the Maggs and Crede analysis. Rogers should take his 20/20 hindsight and start his own psychic hotline.

QUOTE(SoxFan101 @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 02:29 PM) Not all the seats are paid for, still a lot of tickets to be sold..... Every team has bad years, grow a pair and deal with it. QUOTE(Steff @ Jun 24, 2007 -> 04:19 PM) I would love to see some of you kids deal with the crap of the 80's. I'm guessing a rise in suicides on the south side. No kidding. I'd hate to see what some of the people in this thread would do if they got laid off or went through a bad time with their significant other. I've been actively following this team for 25 years and my loyalty was rewarded handsomely less than two years ago. There's no way I turn my back on them. No freaking way.

QUOTE(Steve9347 @ Jun 25, 2007 -> 08:28 AM) It's all about the El Duque factor... I had forgotten about that. They are very close.

So, does Contreras want to go back to NYC? That might keep him from waiving his no-trade clause. What is Minaya's fascination with over-paying aging, injury-prone pitchers who no longer have their best stuff? Methinks he's not as good a GM as the media portrays him as.

QUOTE(WSoxMatt @ Jun 22, 2007 -> 07:33 PM) Ill take Farmer anyday +1 For better or worse, Farmer is an enormous part of White Sox baseball. I couldn't imagine listening to a game without him. He's much better at color commentary than play-by-by and I think that moving him back into that role would work best. Singleton is OK, but nothing special.