WCSox

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 01:52 PM) The Red Sox rookie Pedroia is hitting .316 and they just moved him to lead off. I dont know if Tad is an upgrade over Mark Ellis either. But he is an upgrade over Josh Barfield. Then again, I don't think that Cleveland would give a ton in return.

QUOTE(daa84 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 01:47 PM) my point with thome is that his peak trade value is right now....the problem trading dye is taht we waited until 1.) he declined and 2.) he got to a contract year.....if we can jump the gun on jimmys decline (which at age 37 is sooner rather than later) and deal him before his trade value decreases due to contract situation...i think it may become advisable dont get me wrong, i love thome, his .450 obp and 1.000 + OPS, but if we can get a good young package for him you have to think about it With Dye on his way out and Crede probably not being a factor from now on, the Sox need Thome's power and left-handed bat. If Thome were to be dealt, the middle of the lineup would be Pualie, AJ, and whoever else can sort of hit.

QUOTE(kwolf68 @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 01:44 PM) I'd be utterly amazed if the Yankees gave up Cano'. Utterly amazed. +1 Cano is young, cheap, and very talented. They'd be stupid to deal him.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 01:31 PM) The problem with dealing Iguchi is that pretty much everyone in contention at this point is solid at 2B. I would trade anyone that we got value for. The Red Sox and A's don't have much at 2B. Not sure if Tad is enough to get anything back of value, though. There is almost no way I'd trade Danks, especially with Mark on his way out and Contreras looking like he's in the twilight of his career.

QUOTE(DonnyDevito @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 01:19 PM) i don't think they will. foolish sox fans, or rich ones, keep going to the cell (30,000+) to spend $7 on a beer and $4 on a hot dog. the organization is taking the fans for a ride this season. they're just going to sit back and count their money. they're pinning their hopes on a top 5 draft pick next season. Sox fans historically have not come out to the ballpark in droves to watch mediocre baseball. Because of '05, it won't be as bad as it was back in the late '90s. But if things don't get better and the firesale happens next month, the Sox will probably slide back to the 2.2 million mark (27,000 per game).

Mark and JD should definitely go and we should be able to get A LOT in return. I'd also strongly consider dealing Iguchi. I'd keep AJ because, despite his salary, we have nothing behind him.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 12:24 PM) I dunno, I hate to say it, but Terrero does seem kind of exciting. If Terrero keeps hitting like he has, I'd love to see him in RF or CF permanently. He has a good arm and speed on top of it.

QUOTE(Allsox @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 09:14 AM) Contreras' and Vazquez's on the other hand will prevent this team from being competitive in '08 and they'll lose Buehrle because of them. Given the outrageous market for top-tier veteran starting pitching now (remember what Zito got this past winter?), Buehrle was long gone before Contreras and Vazquez were re-inked. Why do you think that KW chose to re-sign those guys over Mark and then traded for two young left-handed starters? Plus, when was the last time that JR gave a four- or five-year deal to a pitcher? BTW, very nice videos. Thanks.

QUOTE(southsideirish @ Jun 13, 2007 -> 12:34 PM) Why? Because he is almost 27? I would say he is a prospect and I would say he is a better prospect than either Owens or Anderson. Terrero's power numbers are WAY up from his previous ML experience. I'm not sure why that is (i.e., I hope that he's not on HGH or something) but if it is natural and it just took him this long to develop into a solid hitter, he just might be a permanent replacement for Dye in RF. Dude has A LOT of power, a good arm, and pretty decent speed.

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 02:09 PM) Hopefully KW won't be in any position to make any decisions as hopefully he will be canned. Yeah, we wouldn't want KW acquiring any more veterans for bargain prices and using them to win more championships.

QUOTE(fathom @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 10:11 AM) I think what DA and myself are saying is that Vazquez just isn't that good of a pitcher, especially for how much money he makes. Ted Lilly and Gil Meche aren't very good either, yet make approximately the same salary. The reality is that decent veteran pitching costs an arm and a leg now. But with Mark on his way out and Contreras declining and entering the twilight of his career, the Sox were desperate for a healthy middle/back-of-the-rotation starter. If McCarthy wasn't good enough to crack our rotation last summer or even stay on our squad, I can't imagine how dismal the rest of our minor league starters are. No wonder Kenny signed Javy to an extension.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 09:23 AM) Perhaps it's hindsight to you but it's not to me. I was hoping for a trade all offseason, his back was a ticking time bomb and his stock was never going to be higher than it was coming off his career year in '06. Yes, yes I do. His offensive production has been mediocre for the majority of his career and even when he has a career year he can't even muster 30 walks. If I'm evaluating him for the future I'm looking at his health concerns and patterns in his offensive production and everything pointed towards a disappointing season in '07 which is something the Sox could not afford to get from him considering his pending free agency after the '08 season. His long loopy swings, his propensity for popping the ball up, the fact that he's one of the slowest players on a team full of old, slow guys, his inability to draw a walk, his inconsistency at the plate from month to month, the insane back problems that have physically crippled him time and time again at the ripe old age of 29, the fact that the Sox' #2 prospect just happens to play 3B and his looming free agency with Boras at the helm are just some of the reasons why I hoped 2006 was his final season with the White Sox. I've been comparing him to Ed Sprague for a while now and it looks like he's headed in the exact same direction Sprague was after he had his career year at age 28. KW should have done his damndest to deal him away for what ever package he could get when Crede disregarded the advise of his employer and sided with his agent instead (I'm not blaming him for siding with Boras, that's his decision to make it's just obvious that the Sox were not comfortable with him simply rehabbing the injury) and I said as much when it happened. Did you ever consider that KW may have tried to deal Crede last year, but talk of possible back surgery and the prospect of having to deal with Boras when negotiating a long-term deal killed his trade value? If you were a GM and had access to, at the very minimum, the same material that we do, would YOU have traded anything of value for Crede? I don't think that I would've. And even before the talk of back surgery, it's not like the Yankees, Red Sox, A's, Tigers, Cardinals, or Mets were in need of a 3rd baseman down the stretch last season. I'm not saying that KW is golden or anything, but I probably would've done the same thing if I had been in his position. In my mind, this was the Sox's last year to make a run at another championship before re-tooling their roster. If Crede is only making about $5 million and is only under contract for one more year, I roll the dice. Even in a worst-case scenario, I save $5 million the next year and still have Fields.

QUOTE(iamshack @ Jun 7, 2007 -> 08:24 AM) I don't care how long Chris Young's homer was last night. I'll take Javy for the the 5 years we'll end up having him over a Mike Cameron clone every day and twice on half-price Mondays. I have to agree. Javy may be over-hyped and mediocre but, last night notwithstanding, he's a decent #4 pitcher and is making about market value for a veteran with his resume. The D-backs can have Young. I'll take the durable, decent starting pitcher and Owens/Terrero in CF. How dare you insult the integrity of Soxtalk!

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 10:05 PM) Hence why I feel sick to my stomach. Last year should have been his last with the White Sox, the writing was on the wall with him there was no way he was going to make it through the 2007 campaign without his back taking him out for a few months. I'm not sure about that. These back problems have been going on for two full years now and they haven't exactly killed his production (up until now, of course). With 20/20 hindsight, sure, Kenny should've dealt him. But this is something that Joe's been dealing with for a while and he's still produced. If you're really trying to make a run this year, do you deal a guy who put up an MVP-caliber performance in the '05 postseason, a career year at the plate last season, and is one of the top defensive 3Bs in the league? I'm not sure I do, especially since he's a minimal financial risk. Instead of being pissed off at KW, I just feel sorry for Joe. These back problems just may end his career. I want to see him play for several more years, even if it's in a different uniform.

QUOTE(Gregory Pratt @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 08:54 PM) I agree, but I don't think either Fields or Crede is the answer. They both suck. Neither is Lowell. He's on the wrong side of 30, overpriced, mediocre defensively, and not an upgrade at the plate over a healthy Crede.

QUOTE(IowaSoxFan @ Jun 6, 2007 -> 05:38 AM) KW must go first for failing to assemble a solid base of talent. He has brought in a bunch of wanna be sluggers who cannot put the ball in play consistently. The whole scouting department is a mess and that falls back on KW. I dont care who the manager of this team is, if the players cant play the game we are not going to win. I remember the Sox having one of the top minor league systems under Schueler in the late '90s. How'd that work out in the end? And LOL at the "wannabe" sluggers comment. Yeah, Dye and Thome both suck.

QUOTE(Greg The Bull Luzinski @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) On a related thought, putting Crede on the DL makes him literally impossible to trade. Could the Sox wait until the end of the season and then trade their "rights" to him next year to a different team? Not sure how that works in MLB.

QUOTE(Hanky Panky @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:59 AM) This is definitely going to be it... Mark's 100th win! I'm leaving work early to watch it. Gots to get all of the MB that I can before he bolts as a FA next year.

QUOTE(JohnCangelosi @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) Joker? How about a little respect for a guy who was having my way with beautiful women while you were still in diapers?;-) You're only a few years older than I. And I've been following the Sox longer than you have. QUOTE(chisox72 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 02:32 PM) Hug it out, b****es.... :michaelscott "It doesn't work so well with women..."

QUOTE(Balta1701 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 11:31 AM) Here's the even bigger point I'm trying to make. How many people can name a pitcher who received a 5 year + contract who has actually been worth that contract? And how many pitchers can you come up with who haven't been worth those contracts? In my mind at least...it's pretty overwhelmingly one-sided. Absolutely. I think that Zito has a good chance of being an exception, but I don't expect him to get back to his Cy Young numbers either.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 01:00 PM) I'm talking about credibility on here. How do you not get that? Really though, congrats to him on being much much older than I am, that's quite an accomplishment, it's not going to keep me from from responding. How do you not get that most people here don't really give a crap about "Soxtalk Cred." Having 10,000 posts doesn't make one's opinion more or less valid than the guy's who has 100 posts. Why do you give a crap about what this guy thinks, especially when he throws out a statement aimed at nobody in particular and doesn't cite any posts to back it up? Instead of going apes*** and throwing out your "Soxtalk Cred", ask the joker to back up his statements.

QUOTE(Kalapse @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 12:46 PM) So you really don't get what I was saying there huh? I was simply pointing out the irony is a 20-year-old bringing up an issue of "credibility" to somebody who's been following the Sox longer than he's been alive. Recourse? Did he specifically call you out by name in his original post?

QUOTE(JohnCangelosi @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 12:24 PM) P.S. I am a 35yr old man and in running my software business and managing a 100 or so employees, I don't get on here as much as I like, so it may take a while to get 1,000 posts ;-) Don't you get it? Only college kids who post 20+ times a day on Soxtalk know what they're talking about. Sheesh!

QUOTE(BearSox @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 09:54 AM) Blame Jamie Navarro for that... Yep, and IIRC, Navarro had a very up-and-down career. He was terrible in his last two years in Milwaukee. QUOTE(southsider2k5 @ Jun 5, 2007 -> 10:02 AM) How many pitchers have left the Sox that in retrospect deserved a four or five year deal? Blackjack, Alvarez, Fernandez, and Hoyt all fizzled out shortly after leaving the Sox. I can't imagine how financially-screwed the Sox would've been if they'd given somebody like Blackjack a huge, long-term deal.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 4, 2007 -> 11:06 PM) Buehrle's agent isn't Boras; that means the world in these negotiations. Zito got 7/$126 because of Boras; I think Buehrle will "settle" for somewhere around 5/$80 or 6/$100, and I quite honestly would do either of those in a second because you know Buehrle is going to stay healthy over the course of his career, though he may be inconsistent. And quite frankly, if he has a half a season like he did in 2006 every 3 years, so be it; you deal with a s***ty half of baseball and hope he can be great for the other 9-11 halves. Garland I agree on, but he signed a 3 year extension prior to 2006, and his next contract will be atleast 5 years in length. So, following this season, you try and negotiate that contract. Pretty simple. When was the last time that JR allowed his GM to sign a pitcher to anything more than a three- or four-year deal? I'd love to see both Mark and Jon ink five-year deals, but history suggests that it's probably not going to happen.