WCSox

QUOTE(AirScott @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 11:06 AM) Recent history is on our side. Konerko's deal expired after 2005 but we re-signed him. From all indications, he won't be re-signed until after the season, if he even is. Obviously if he's going to be leaving you want to get something for him, but it doesn't always work out that way. And other circumstances come into play come the trading deadline (likeliness Buehrle will re-sign, how hard are we contending, what are the offers, etc.). History has also shown that JR doesn't like to give five-year deals to veteran pitchers, which is the lower end of what Mark could command on the FA market. Given that Zito got 7 years/$126 million this past winter, Mark could easily command 6 years/$90 million. I don't like our chances.

QUOTE(witesoxfan @ Jun 1, 2007 -> 11:51 AM) Just curious, does the name Bob Brenly have any meaning to you at all? 2001 - 92-70, WS title 2002 - 98-64, division title 2003 - 84-78, 3rd place 2004 - 29-50, last place, fired midseason Yep, after they lost Schilling, Luis Gonzalez fell apart, and Mark Grace retired. What a shocker! Funny, Buck Showalter HAS managed since Brenly took his job (and won a championship with Showalter's team). What was your point again? Well, that's nice, but Brenly succeeded in doing something that most managers haven't, so it doesn't make him a crappy manager either. FWIW, I'll take Brenly over Jerry Manuel, Terry Bevington, Gene Lamont, Jeff Torborg, and most of the other ex-Sox managers who failed to win a pennant. Knee-jerk reactions aside, it's pretty difficult to argue with Ozzie's results thus far. He averaged 91 wins in his first three seasons. Don't you think that it might be a good idea to at least wait until that average drops into the 80s before calling for his head? But if you want to to believe that it's Ozzie's fault that prolific veterans like Konerko and Dye aren't hitting or that it's Ozzie's fault that MacDougal and Aardsma have been blowing leads left and right, go right ahead.

Yeah, it'd be nice, but I see the Sox shedding payroll (maybe $15 million) at this point. The Sox will struggle to average 30,000/game for the next couple of years if they conitinue regressing back to .500 ball. And that means that they won't be in the Top 5 in payroll. The net subtraction of Buehrle, Dye, and Crede's paychecks would be mostly negated by the addition of A-Rod's. I'd love to see KW dump a number of aging vets from this squad if it means that they can lock up Mark at the end of the year, but I'm not feeling optimistic about it. Not only is JR's history with pitchers in contradiction to that, but the acquisition of TWO young lefty starters this past offseason suggests that they were already planning for the AB "After Buehrle" era last year.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 31, 2007 -> 04:54 PM) I see that all of the Ozzie haters like yourself apparantly have issues with people who have an opposing viewpoint and can back it up. I agree with WCSox that he does make mistakes but I also feel some of the criticism of his moves are knee jerk reactions by people who either don't have all the info, haven't considered all the possibilities, or maybe just maybe don't know the game all that well. Nah, they're right. Ozzie's a terrible manager, as evidenced by his WS title, two 90-win seasons, and ZERO losing seasons in just 3+ years. Ozzie may not be Tony LaRussa or Bobby Cox (or even Mike Scioscia), but I'd wait for a losing season or two before declaring that he's awful and should be run out of town.

QUOTE(29thandPoplar @ May 31, 2007 -> 12:11 PM) For the short time I have been here and again this is a really nice site I do not see that many people blindly sticking up for Guillen, but what I do see are posters like rockraines and a few others who fire back at some posters who tend to blame the mgr for everything. To me those Sox fan posters are asking for the blame to be spread more evenly and specifically more on the players since they are the ones screwing up. What I am seeing is a lot of posters here hate Guillen and it is a snowball going downhill as others jump on board with the people who post the most and every time the White Sox lose it is due in small part or mostly large part to some mess up, in their minds, by Guillen. And then they point their fingers and say see I told you our manager is a thisandthat or a soandso. The Ozzie Hatred Hysteria on this board would be laughable if it weren't so sad. No doubt that Ozzie makes questionable decisions at times, but he isn't the one hitting .210 or giving up four- or five-run innings on the mound. But notice that in his recent comments to the media, he's putting the blame on himself for not getting more out of this overwhelmingly veteran and overwhelmingly under-achieving group. He throws himself under the bus and protects his players, who in reality deserve 99% of the blame.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 29, 2007 -> 07:03 PM) KW's inability to get major league ready talent for Garcia really hurt. I'd say that getting a high-tier pitching prospect for Freddy's rapidly-declining skills and his $10 million price tag was a halfway decent deal. KW was lucky that he didn't have to eat a significant portion of his remaining salary to take him off the payroll. If we're where we currently are two months from now, I'd like to see Dye and Crede dealt. With a significant amount of money tied up in aging vets like Thome and Contreras, this team needs to get younger. And I'd like to see KW take the money that Dye and Crede are freeing up to make a serious run at re-signing Mark in the off-season.

Ivan Calderon and his Mr. T-like jewelry

QUOTE(BearSox @ May 29, 2007 -> 04:44 PM) Greg Walker... It amazes me how some people can say he is one of the best hitting coaches in baseball with a straight face. It amazes me even more than somebody thinks that we should trade Gio and Terrero. But I agree about Walker. Not that I think that he's a terrible hitting coach but, as somebody pointed out here weeks ago, Walker's coaching style doesn't seem to be working with this group anymore. Fair or not, I think that he'll be the first casualty.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 29, 2007 -> 04:25 PM) When you replace Carl Everett with Jim Thome, you no longer should be bunting in the 1-2 spots of the lineup. When you have such a powerful 3-4-5 like the Sox have had in 2006 and 2007, you should have high OBP guys at the top of the order and screw the speed factor. However, Ozzie always has to have his slappy guys at the top of the order. I have no problem with Erstad and Iguchi hitting in the 1- and 2-slots, respectively. Especially when there aren't very many high-OBP guys on this team at all right now. Who else did you have in mind? I more or less agree with that. Ozzie is the kind of guy who you'd want to buy for what he's worth and sell for what he thinks he's worth. That said, until he puts up back-to-back mediocre seasons and/or goes over the top with his mouth, I don't see him going anywhere. KW, on the other hand, just might be half as good as he thinks he is. Trading Thome and only taking on half of his remaining contract was brilliant, as was getting Gio back from the Phillies and forcing them to eat the remaining $10 million on Freddy's deal. And the Danks/Massett-for-McCarthy deal is looking like a steal right now as well. Until he makes Todd Ritchie II and III deals, I don't see him going anywhere any time soon.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 29, 2007 -> 04:11 PM) You said you'd give him a lot of credit for motivating the 2005 team. That's fine....I agree he had the perfect temper for that type of team. However, the 2006 and 2007 team are very different, especially in regards to personnel. I don't think Ozzie's style fits this personnel at all. In sports, when almost every aspect of your team is struggling, then that's when coaches start to get fired. I don't understand how the 2006 and 2007 squads are so tremendously different from the '05 team in terms of personnel. Sure, there's been some turnover, but not a tremendous amount. I agree that Ozzie's unconventional style can be problematic at times, but I'll take his kick-in-the-pants style of managing over Jerry Manuel's style of "managing" any day. Especially for this under-achieving squad that needs a flame lit under their collective ass right now.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 29, 2007 -> 03:24 PM) If you're going to give the "arrogance" credit for their 2006 win total, then why aren't they criticized for blowing a 6 game Wild Card lead at the All-Star break? Whatever Ozzie was doing right from the start of the 2005 season to the 2006 ASB is no longer working, as we've played below .500 for far too long now. So are you laying the blame on Ozzie for the Sox blowing a 6-game WC lead at the break? What about their below-average pitching last year? Don't you think that may have been more to blame? Do you blame Ozzie for a lineup of veterans who haven't been hitting this year? Or a bullpen that's been sucking big-time for the past month and a half?

QUOTE(chisox72 @ May 29, 2007 -> 02:49 PM) Getting into a fist-fight/brawl doesn't make any of them better baseball players, nor do I believe that does anything for chemistry. As somebody who played organized sports throughout his youth, I strongly disagree. Emotions and team chemistry are IMMENSELY important. Of course, it's not enough to turn a crappy team ('06 Cubs) into division champs, but it can take a team on the bubble ('00 Sox) and put them over the top.

2005 was mostly the result of a few players having career years (Garland, Cotts, Politte, Hermanson), others having near-career years (Buehrle, Garcia), and a few more getting hot down the stretch (Contreras, Crede, Jenks). That said, I don't think that they would've gone all of the way without the intensity brought to the team by Ozzie and AJ and the cameraderie between guys like AJ, Crede, and Rowand. That intensity carried over into last year, where a team with below-average pitching went on to win 90 games in the toughest division in baseball. As much as some people like to throw Ozzie and KW under the bus for their arrogance, what they brought to the organization worked pretty well for two years. Their time may be up, but it's difficult to argue with their track record.

QUOTE(chisox72 @ May 29, 2007 -> 02:19 PM) I love this whole "fired up" the Twins concept. Gardy ranting and raving like an idiot, over something that was blown out of proportion, "fired them up"? The only thing it did was make him look like a tool... I think bad pitching decisions, coupled with some botched plays in the field, put them in a position to capitalize. Torii getting the Metro-bounce didn't hurt matters either. I don't buy this, "they were angry therefore they played better baseball" crap, because it is just that...crap. I remember a mediocre Sox team getting into a bench-clearing brawl with the Tigers back in 2000 and going on to win 95 games that year. It's amazing what a good, old-fashioned fistfight and a chip on a team's shoulder can do for team chemistry. Gardenhire indeed did look like a tool at the time, but he looked a lot better after his team stomped the Sox in the bottom half of that inning. I was hoping for another bench-clearing brawl to light a fire under the collective ass of the listless, under-achieving Sox, even if it means Ozzie making an ass of himself (and, historically, he's been pretty good at that). This team is doing nothing but going through the motions right now and I'm sick of it.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 26, 2007 -> 11:14 AM) I literally stood in my seat and yelled s*** thats gone. Everyone around me were a little delayed, that thing has 400+ written all over it. I was at the game at Safeco when he hit his first, off of Washburn. It was more of a line drive, but he freaking crushed that one as well. This dude has some serious power and can hustle around the bases as well. He's going to be a very solid major league player.

My father somehow scored some really good seats to a game back in '84 (about 15 rows back between the plate and the third-base dugout). I forgot who they were playing, but Ron Kittle hit an absolute moonshot into the left field upper deck (it probably didn't miss the roof by much). It was the first home run I saw in person and, wow, it's something I'll never forget.

QUOTE(fathom @ May 24, 2007 -> 12:06 PM) How many jobs could the manager of the organization call someone a f*g or swear on live radio and still have their job? Hence the point of Morrissey's column. Baseball is one of the few places where men can still be men. Even immature men.

QUOTE(RockRaines @ May 23, 2007 -> 11:15 AM) He had a very straight and uncontrolled 100 mph fastball. Since then he has put some cut on some and can now sink some of them as well. Couple that with the change, slider and his hammer and he can dominate. I agree with that. You don't need to throw 98-100 to dominate. If Bobby's locating that hook and slider, he'll be dominant at 94-95.

QUOTE(vandy125 @ May 23, 2007 -> 09:13 AM) I agree about our chances looking better this year with solid starting pitching. However, this is the same thing we heard about the Twins before '05, the same thing we heard about the Sox in 05, the same thing we heard about the Tigers last year. Last year it was "the Tigers pitching is too young, they won't hold up over the long run" and "Kenny Rogers will falter since he is not this type of pitcher", etc. Same thing this year, different line about the pitching. Outside of Sabathia, the Indians don't have nearly as much talent in their rotation as the Tigers. Even before they broke out last season, Bonderman and Verlander were both projected to be studs. Throw in All-Star Kenny Rogers, and that's a much better staff talent-wise than Sabathia, Lee, and Byrd. And while Betancourt is good, Zumaya and Rodney are better than anything that Cleveland has in their 'pen. I'm not saying that the Indians don't have the talent to win, but pitching is what's going to determine whether they do or not. Detroit's staff lead the league in ERA last season. Cleveland's is currently ranked #7. That's why I'm not worried about them right now.

QUOTE(whitesoxfan101 @ May 20, 2007 -> 10:17 AM) Not sure why they would. His contract is over after either this year or next right? And he is still a productive hitter QUOTE(jackie hayes @ May 20, 2007 -> 05:53 PM) Mostly, they just want out of the $35-40 mil left on the contract. Yep, and with Torre on the verge of getting canned, my money is on King George finally dumping high-priced, past-their-prime players and rebuilding.

QUOTE(vandy125 @ May 23, 2007 -> 07:51 AM) I think this same thing was said about the Tigers last year. Sure, they faded towards the end, but 90 wins was still not enough to catch up to them. I wouldn't count them out. The Indians don't have the pitching talent that the Tigers had last year. No offense to them, but I'm not worried. Even with the Sox offense scuffling (but much improved over the past week), I like their chances a lot more than I did last year. With solid starting pitching, you always have a chance.

QUOTE(bmags @ May 22, 2007 -> 12:58 PM) as far as my lifetime goes of following the sox, I still think Cleveland is our biggest rival. I'll have to second that. They were definitely the Sox's rivals from '94-'00 and then in '05 again. And it was a pretty nasty rivalry back in the mid/late '90s, especially when the Sox signed Belle. The Twins deserve special consideration as well, although they haven't won a pennant since '91. The Tigers haven't been thorns in our side for long enough to qualify (although the bench-clearing brawl back in 2000 deserves mention). And I can't even remember the Sox having a clear-cut rival back in the '80s. Maybe the A's or Twins in the old AL West? Or maybe the Orioles, after what happened in the '83 ALCS? Given the bad relationship between the Sox and the perceived pro-Cubs Chicago media bias, the mutual disdain between the fans, and the results of the '03 and '05 postseasons, the Cubs are definitely the Sox's greatest non-divisional rivalry. And I certainly wouldn't call a Sox fan a "moron" for enjoying a regular-season victory over the Cubs a little more than a regular-season victory over the Indians.

QUOTE(southsideirish71 @ May 21, 2007 -> 12:51 PM) The guy is a self promoting ass-hat who has an annoying voice. QUOTE(Whitewashed in @ May 21, 2007 -> 01:58 PM) He has a horrible show with an irritating voice. I moved away from Chicago before North went on the air and finally got to hear him when I was in town for a wedding last August. My God, his voice is like nails on a chalkboard. He sounds one of the Superfans, from SNL's old skit that parodied Bears fans.

Griffey is an overpaid, injury-prone dinosaur who can't play CF that well anymore. No thanks. Crawford would be awesome, but TB would probably want Danks, Gio, and at least one other top-tier guy. No thanks again. If they wanted to go after a big-money FA, I'd be happiest with Ichiro. Not sure if he'd want to come to Chicago, though. If that doesn't happen, I'd be satisfied with somebody like Baldelli or Broussard.

I imagine that most of Soxtalk would've gone absolutely ape$hit if KW dealt Crede back in December, especially with the season and a half that he had prior to then. Even if KW gets significantly less for him than he could've gotten in December (or even if he gets nothing), the Sox owe Crede nothing after this year and KW can use that money elsewhere. That's not exactly a bad situation, especially with Mark and Ichiro on the FA market this Fall. I'd like to see KW let Dye walk as well and re-sign one of those two to a four- or five-year deal.